Of course not. There was no "angle" to outing her. The most senior people in this administration were just flapping their lips for the sake of flapping, setting up secret meetings with reporters on deep background probably because they were hungry and needed breakfast.

George Bush has never done anything wrong. George Bush will never do anything wrong. It's the country that's wrong, not George Bush.

Thanks RL. If her status wasn't covert, then I'll quit b!tchen. :)

The whole Fitzgerald investigation was brought about by the CIA complaining about their agent's identity being compromised.

Like Limbaugh, caught buying 12,000 oxycontin pills, was pleaded out to a lesser charge, enough evidence has to be there to support a trial. The whole point of Fitzgerald's investigation is the outing of a covert operative... but that charge may not be sufficiently provable to make an indictment. It doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Of course, all of the charges are not in, so the thin protection of 'no one has been charged' may go away.

He admits he mentioned her name...........that's an open and shut case, yes?

...and PP OT Forum is the courtroom, yes? :p

OK, I'm done ranting about this topic. We'll see where the chips lie. You know where I stand on this "debate," and please don't think for a minute I'd back off for any other administration. When it comes to protecting classified material, or protecting the status of our agents, I'm a vault, baby. And you should be, too.

There's a lot of speculation here based on third-hand spin from plitical pundits, but if interested, anyone could read what knowledgeable people have to say -- like Larry Johnson:

By Larry Johnson
The misinformation being spread in the media about the Plame affair is alarming and damaging to the longterm security interests of the United States. Republicans' talking points are trying to savage Joe Wilson and, by implication, his wife, Valerie Plame as liars. That is the truly big lie.For starters, Valerie Plame was an undercover operations officer until outed in the press by Robert Novak. Novak's column was not an isolated attack. It was in fact part of a coordinated, orchestrated smear that we now know includes at least Karl Rove.Valerie Plame was a classmate of mine from the day she started with the CIA. I entered on duty at the CIA in September 1985. All of my classmates were undercover--in other words, we told our family and friends that we were working for other overt U.S. Government agencies. We had official cover. That means we had a black passport--i.e., a diplomatic passport. If we were caught overseas engaged in espionage activity the black passport was a get out of jail free card.

A few of my classmates, and Valerie was one of these, became a non-official cover officer. That meant she agreed to operate overseas without the protection of a diplomatic passport. If caught in that status she would have been executed.
The lies by people like Victoria Toensing, Representative Peter King, and P. J. O'Rourke insist that Valerie was nothing, just a desk jockey. Yet, until Robert Novak betrayed her she was still undercover and the company that was her front was still a secret to the world. When Novak outed Valerie he also compromised her company and every individual overseas who had been in contact with that company and with her.The Republicans now want to hide behind the legalism that "no laws were broken". I don't know if a man made law was broken but an ethical and moral code was breached. For the first time a group of partisan political operatives publically identified a CIA NOC. They have set a precendent that the next group of political hacks may feel free to violate.They try to hide behind the specious claim that Joe Wilson "lied". Although Joe did not lie let's follow that reasoning to the logical conclusion. Let's use the same standard for the Bush Administration. Here are the facts. Bush's lies have resulted in the deaths of almost 1800 American soldiers and the mutilation of 12,000. Joe Wilson has not killed anyone. He tried to prevent the needless death of Americans and the loss of American prestige in the world.But don't take my word for it, read the biased Senate intelligence committee report. Even though it was slanted to try to portray Joe in the worst possible light this fact emerges on page 52 of the report: According to the US Ambassador to Niger (who was commenting on Joe's visit in February 2002), "Ambassador Wilson reached the same conclusion that the Embassy has reached that it was highly unlikely that anything between Iraq and Niger was going on." Joe's findings were consistent with those of the Deputy Commander of the European Command, Major General Fulford.The Republicans insist on the lie that Val got her husband the job. She did not. She was not a division director, instead she was the equivalent of an Army major. Yes it is true she recommended her husband to do the job that needed to be done but the decision to send Joe Wilson on this mission was made by her bosses.At the end of the day, Joe Wilson was right. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It was the Bush Administration that pushed that lie and because of that lie Americans are dying. Shame on those who continue to slander Joe Wilson while giving Bush and his pack of liars a pass. That's the true outrage.

Jul 13, 2005

Larry Johnson credentials:

http://www.tpmcafe.com/user/5713

I don't know if a man made law was broken but an ethical and moral code was breached. For the first time a group of partisan political operatives publically identified a CIA NOC. They have set a precendent that the next group of political hacks may feel free to violate.

This will only become precedent if we let it alone. That Karl Rove is still a government employee after outing Plame and after 5 Grand Jury appearances is all by itself itself an impeachable offense.

The rules are becoming clearer and clearer: Either you stand up for Bush or you stand up for the country.

I know where I stand.

Rodeo, you stand next to Lyndon LaRouche.

Excellent rebuttal. Don't you have any national security to compromise or something?

Rick's selling out to China. ;)

You mean like Valerie Plame did when she intentionally lobbied for her unqualified husband to go Maxwell Smart on fact-finding in Niger?

Yea Nul, like that.

Shh, I'm listening in on Rodeos phone calls and can't hear with all this bickering.

Hillary may be your only hope Mul

Jim, you ever go dancing, look over and see a person dancing next to you, you move to another section of the dance floor and the person is right next to you again...all night this goes on and it sorta creeps you out?...That is you Jim, you are that guy.

r u being e-stalked Mul?

Creeping you out is a noble cause Mul.

I still don't understand any of this stuff. Why would people in the administration even care who Joe Wilson's wife was in the first place? Forget the whole "is she / isn't she an agent" thing for a moment. What was the point for them ?

Can someone 'splain it to me?

I'm not sure if anyone knows the whole story, but Joe Wilson published an editorial in the New York Times pointing out that part of the reason for attacking Iraq was not supported by the facts -- the "sixteen words" in the '03 State of the Union Address.

Outing his wife was supposed by many to be 'payback' to Wilson. Following that, the CIA cover company she "worked for" -- Brewster Jennings -- was also outed. Since Plame was working on monitoring nuclear proliferation, it's now starting to look to some people as if there was a secondary reason for getting her out of the CIA.

Because Joe Wilson lied, suggesting Dick Cheney's people sent him to Niger, when the reality (lied about by Wilson) was that Valerie Plame lobbied and pushed for her husband to get the mission. This lie, and Wilson's subterfuge, forced the hand of the administration to clarify the record and reveal who, truthfully, arranged for Wilson to undermine the administration during wartime...This is treason.

1. They were trying to spread the (false) story that Wilson's Africa trip was some kind of junket arranged by his CIA wife. It was not.

2. They simply wanted to put a hurt on them for exposing the president as a liar about the (false) Niger uranium connection. They did. It was a career-ender for Plame. She's no longer with the agency.

Hmmm, why hasn't Wilson / Plame been picked up and charged with treason? Mul, turn the lights on, pull off the visqueen and duct tape from your windows, cast them open and breath the fresh LA air. :rolleyes:

The report states that a CIA official told the Senate committee that Plame "offered up" Wilson's name for the Niger trip, then on Feb. 12, 2002, sent a memo to a deputy chief in the CIA's Directorate of Operations saying her husband "has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity." The next day, the operations official cabled an overseas officer seeking concurrence with the idea of sending Wilson, the report said.


Furthermore...


The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts. And contrary to Wilson's assertions and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address.

WashingtonCompost

So, according to Valerie Plame (escaping the scrutiny of the leftist media), Joe Wilson was qualified to gather intel because he had a tea-sipping chatty relationship with the Prime Minister of Niger and the Minister of Mines?...We are to believe that was sufficient to squeeze out a guilty plea from Niger?...ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDING ME?

Wilson was a member of the U.S. Diplomatic Service from 1976 through 1998. From 1988 to 1991, he was the Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, Iraq. He was hailed as "truly inspiring" and "courageous" by George H. W. Bush after sheltering more than one hundred Americans at the embassy, despite Saddam Hussein's threats to execute anyone who refused to hand over foreigners. As a result, in 1990, he also became the last American diplomat to meet with Saddam Hussein (Wilson, 2003). When Saddam sent a note to Wilson (along with other embassy heads in Iraq) threatening to execute anyone sheltering foreigners in Iraq, Wilson publicly repudiated the dictator by showing up to a press conference wearing a homemade noose around his neck. Saddam offered a public apology for the diplomatic note.

Wilson later served as U.S. ambassador to Gabon and São Tomé and Príncipe under President George H. W. Bush and helped direct Africa policy for the National Security Council under President Bill Clinton.

The CIA sent Wilson to Africa for a reason. He was qualified for the mission.

He brought back the truth. As we know, this administration can't handle the truth. So they set out to destroy him, at great expense to our national security.

Thanks for the additional info. I guess this sounds dense - but, what is the motivation to "out" Wilson's wife? How does that "punish" him? Or her for that matter?

IF (a big IF until properly investigated) someone in the administration gave her name to the press - was the motivation to make Wilson's trip look like there is some kind of collusion between Wilson and people in the CIA?

Why would pointing her out as the person who nominated Wilson for the trip invalidate the trip or the information he gathered ?

There are no "ifs" involved, big or small.

Both Karl Rove, the president's top advisor in the White House, and Scotter Libby, the vice president's Chief of Staff, have admitted disclosing Plames name and CIA status to multiple reporters.

Destroying someone's wife's career seems like punishment to me ... if someone came along and took away my livelihood of the past 20 years, I would consider that to be a pretty bad turn of events in my life.

Bump

Wilson, upon returning, immediately sought to damage the Bush Administration by writing an editorial in the NewYorkSlimes (notoriously leftist propaganda rag). Valerie Plame knew this was Wilson's intent. In the editorial Wilson fabricated and led people to believe that his charade was approved and official. This was a lie. This lie, involving Cheney, was instrumental to the false image Wilson was offering.

Plame/Wilson and their orchestraters set Cheney up. They forced his hand by either making him a co-conspirator (not revealing the Wilson lie) or by revealing what everbody knew, that Joe Wilson's wife was a CIA bureaucrat...Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Liberal trial lawyers infect all of Democrat politics and this is a classic example of trial attorney tactics played out on a treasonous scale.

Still not completely clear on the motivation. (but I'm getting there)

It was to make his trip seem like a collusion between Wilson and people at the CIA? But didn't Cheney's staff (or maybe it was Bolton's) order the CIA to check out the Niger info?

So then people in the CIA sent a guy - on the recommendation of his lower level wife - to Niger who would discredit the President? That doesn't make sense - especially when most of them are just bureaucrats worried about keeping their civil service jobs and pensions. Why risk it all on something like this?

Even if the wife tricked the administration and CIA into sending Wilson (assuming CIA staff didn't know or understand Wilson's politics), how does that force Cheney's staff into revealing the wife to the press? Cheney seems too smart to fall for that kind of simple minded trap. Seems like it would have been simpler (and less risky) to send in a real CIA guy to check out the Niger info and then discredit Wilson with the real facts.

He was unqualified for fact finding. Going to Niger and sipping sweet tea with friendly dignitaries does not an investigation make. It would be like a cop on the take from the mob testifying to their innocence in court. Wilson's intent was predetermined, premeditated. The fact that these uncomfortable realities of Wilson's incompetence are ignored only suggests that the establishment media are complicit in manipulating perception. Wilson is a hero to the left, just as Alger Hiss was a hero to the left despite being a spy for Stalin.

You're only parroting the deceptive reporting of the New York Times and other media. Libby did not disclose Plame's name and role. In early July 2003 he 'leaked' the relevant portions of the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate report, which were declassified and released to the public a few days later. That information was not about Valerie Plame. These proceedings from the House of Representatives show the NIE report had been declassified no later than July 21, 2003. Per wire stories such as this one on USA Today you will see how the media falsely stated the report was classified in the summer of 2003, and they never mention that the report was declassified.

You are a clear example of someone who's been manipulated by the biased media.

Your claim of last resort for you is always "you have been manipulated by the media." Bull.

Both Rove and Libby have admitted to leaking Plame's identity to multiple reporters. There is no dispute over this fact. None.

Can you hear me? None.

But then again, you are probably one of those guys convinced Saddam had WMD and ties to al Queda. You're a "faith-based" thinker. And your "faith" is whatever you'd prefer to be true.

It must suck to have to go around all day ignoring pesky facts that don't fit your worldview. You can't adapt your thinking, so you adapt reality.

Joe had a book last year and Valerie is working on hers now. She retired, she was not pushed out. So again, this "payback" was to make her rich and famous?

No, logic says that they either didn't know or she wasn't covert. The leak loses nothing by not mentioning her.

Yea bushdaddy, there was no "angle" to outing her. And so what if Rove, Libby, etl al. damaged our ability to gather intelligence on Iran nukes by not only blowing her cover, but the entire operation.

As long as Bush is safe from scrunity, screw national security. Bush is what's important, not America.

Yes, we are lacking in Iran intel because Wilsons pole smoker is raising babies instead of riding a desk:)

No problem bushdaddy, you still have 2 out of 10 Americans on your side on this one. Each one no doubt as clueless and callous as you.

Callous? I'm sure she's good at it:D

Sorry I don't find compromising national security by political hacks working for the president all that funny.