Stupid computer question...

Dottore · 06-11-2006, 07:24 PM

We were at our recreational property in the hills this weekend, and, while working on my computer, I noticed that my wireless router signal was full on on my screen. Now we have a wireless router in our house in the city - but have no internet access at our recreational property.

When I checked the internet - it worked beautifully. Just like broadband. I assume that this signal is coming from a neighbour - the closest of which is on the hill below us.

By going through my ISP I was able to access my emails etc - and thought that it was quite cool to be able to "slipstream" on my neighbours internet access in this fashion.

My question is: Are there any risks associated with tapping into a neighbours internet access in this fashion? Financial? Legal? Privacy related? Virus related?

I would be grateful for you comments.

87coupe · 87coupe's Garage

Quote:

My question is: Are there any risks associated with tapping into a neighbor's internet access in this fashion? Financial? Legal? Privacy related? Virus related?

Technically, it's theft. Not really any different than walking up to his house and hooking up a butt-set to make phone calls. I wouldn't worry too much about it though .. If you want to be a good neighbor you could tell him he needs to secure his wireless network.

Assuming your machine is configured properly and running virus protection, you are relatively safe.

Joeaksa · 06-11-2006, 07:44 PM

Agree with Brandon. If he is a good neighbour I would contact him and tell him to secure his WiFi system.

I have done it while out traveling but normally will not latch on to any signal I do not know about.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Get some chalk and paint the signal strength and direction on the sidewalk in front of his house

dd74 · 06-11-2006, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911
Get some chalk and paint the signal strength and direction on the sidewalk in front of his house

Yep, and he'll get to see a bunch of men in cars show up to surf internet porn at his curb.

Eldorado · 06-11-2006, 10:04 PM

there's risks for him... any traffic that goes over that network (from hacking to underage porn.... hey, it's possible) is his responsibility.. you dont want to see him get sent to a federal pound-you-in-the-ass prison for the actions of someone else.

that's if it's even his network.

that said, there's the same risks for you as there always are when you surf the net... no more, really..

it's technically illegal, but unless he reports you (that's if he's even smart enough to know how to monitor network traffic), there's no real way for his ISP to know about you and can you for it.

HardDrive · 06-11-2006, 11:08 PM

Rather than ask him to secure it, why not stop by and ask if its ok if you drop in on the line once in a while? I unsecured my access point for my neighbors for a few days when they lost their connection.

87coupe · 87coupe's Garage

^ Why would you unsecure your network? If you had your wireless secured you should have just given them secured access.

beepbeep · 06-12-2006, 12:31 AM

It's a unsecure WiFi router. Technicaly, it's a theft of his internet access made possible by his bad knowledge of how to make it secure. Juridically, it would be hard for him to press charges as it's hard to find evidence.

I suggest following: find your neighbour and propose that you share the charge. If he gives OK, secure his router by WPA PSK as well.

That way, you'll be able to get internet access for half a price in legal way and your neighbour will pay less and have more secure network to boot. Win win situation.

Dottore · 06-12-2006, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 87coupe
Technically, it's theft. Not really any different than walking up to his house and hooking up a butt-set to make phone calls.

Is this correct? What am I actually stealing?

My wife thought the situation was analogous to the one where your neighbour has a bright light on his house, by which you are able to read at night. Yes, you would be "using" the electricity for which he pays - but you would not be stealing anything.

I am inclined to agree with my wife on this one. As I often am.

Dottore · 06-12-2006, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by beepbeep
It's a unsecure WiFi router. Technicaly, it's a theft of his internet access made possible by his bad knowledge of how to make it secure. Juridically, it would be hard for him to press charges as it's hard to find evidence.

See above post. Is this correct? I don't think that I am "stealing" his internet access. I think I am merely using what he is making available to me. Interesting legal issue!

legion · 06-12-2006, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911
Get some chalk and paint the signal strength and direction on the sidewalk in front of his house

War chalking...

Joeaksa · 06-12-2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dottore
Is this correct? What am I actually stealing?

My wife thought the situation was analogous to the one where your neighbour has a bright light on his house, by which you are able to read at night. Yes, you would be "using" the electricity for which he pays - but you would not be stealing anything.

I am inclined to agree with my wife on this one. As I often am.

If he agrees to let you use it, then there is no issue.

Otherwise not sure of the legality but it would be better if you asked than he found out the hard way that you were using it without saying anything.

Trust me, he can find out if he knows the system... Course if he knew the system he would probably lock it down.

masraum · 06-12-2006, 08:13 AM

Yes, you are stealing his internet access. He pays $50 a month for access to the internet for him, not for you. That's what you are stealing. Probably not really much danger in you getting caught since most people don't know enough.

The other potential danger to you is that your email password is probably sent clear text which means if he is one of the few smart enough to know that you are on his network, it would be simple work to get your email password.

masraum · 06-12-2006, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dottore
See above post. Is this correct? I don't think that I am "stealing" his internet access. I think I am merely using what he is making available to me. Interesting legal issue!

Not really an interesting legal issue. I believe there is a specific law for it. It's not something that no one has tested before.

Imagine this, the guy pays $50 a month for 1.5Mb internet access. One night he notices that his internet access seems slow. Hmm, it seems that the ISP says "you are pulling the whole 1.5Mb." It seems that he's paying for 1.5Mb, but he's only getting .2Mb because 5 other people are on his wifi and are using the rest of his bandwidth.

masraum · 06-12-2006, 08:27 AM

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Florida_man_charged_with_stealing_WiFi

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/04/State/Wi_Fi_cloaks_a_new_br.shtml

http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?p=1155020#post1155020

http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/08/technology/personaltech/internet_piracy/index.htm?cnn=yes

masraum · 06-12-2006, 08:30 AM

http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=167100929

Quote:

We can argue until we're blue in the face, but the answer doesn't change. It's wrong and illegal. As Wi-Fi users, we should be careful to lock up our networks to avoid tempting drive-by access poachers. But using unsecured networks as an excuse for accessing free wireless connections is like saying it's OK to enter someone's house and watch TV if they haven't locked his doors. It's smart to secure your network, but it shouldn't be a condition to protecting your rights and property.

Dottore · 06-12-2006, 10:47 AM

Thanks for the links Masraum. Very interesting.

Certainly the Notebooks Forum discussion suggests that this issue if far from clear.

The concept of stealing "bandwidth" though certainly makes sense - and I shall inform my neighbour at the next opportunity.