+ 10^100

Interesting, And what was the verdict and punishment?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158783,00.html

Double Murder Conviction for Man Who Helped Girlfriend Miscarry
Tuesday, June 07, 2005

LUFKIN, Texas — A 19-year-old accused of causing his teenage girlfriend to miscarry two fetuses by stepping on her stomach was convicted Monday of two counts of murder.

Gerardo Flores received an automatic life sentence because prosecutors did not seek the death penalty, which was available under the state's 2003 fetus protection law.

Erica Basoria, 17, acknowledged asking Flores to help end her pregnancy; she could not be prosecuted because of her legal right to abortion.

The defense contended that Basoria punched herself while Flores was stepping on her, making it impossible to tell who caused the miscarriage.

Basoria told authorities that, after about four months of pregnancy, she regretted not getting an abortion and started jogging and hitting herself to induce a miscarriage. When her efforts failed, she said she asked her boyfriend to help.

Flores did not testify, but earlier told police that he stepped on Basoria's stomach several times during the week before she miscarried.

Prosecutor Art Bauereiss said most of Basoria's family was pleased with the jury's decision. But Basoria, who sobbed as she left the Angelina County Courthouse, had stood by Flores.

"It's just tragedy all around," said Flores' attorney, Ryan Deaton.

Texas law defines an embryo or fetus as an "individual" and allows criminal prosecution or civil action for a preventable injury or death of a fetus. The law exempts health care providers who perform a legal medical procedure, such as an abortion.

Personally I think it is ridiculous to give the guy a life sentence and the girl gets off scott free because of her "right to an abortion". She admitted to hitting herself in the stomach while he was stepping on her. IMHO, if it's third trimester and you "self abort" in this manner then you go to jail.

How about if we put women in power and they get to decided when/where men get vasectomies?

And Lube, you have a beautiful daughter. We had the same discussion when we found out my son was on the way. And he's beautiful tool. But that is a specious point. How about some pics of the people who's lives have been ruined by childbirth, both parent and child? It doesn't always turn out so nice and happy.

And that brings me back to my original point. For those that are totally opposed to abortion, how many kids have/are you going to adopt? And we're not talking nice healthy white kids...

Rick, that shows why the law is illogical.

Here's another.
A Racine woman is sentenced to nine months in jail for fatally stabbing her newborn as she gave birth at home.

Nine months for real murder and the guy gets life for assisting with a legal abortion.

noststatic - nope, can't get there from here. Lives are made or ruined not by the choice of the birth of a child but other choices. Choices to smoke rock, choices to gamble beyound ones means, choices not to work hard in school, choices to drink too much booze, choices not to at least consider a faith - any faith, choices not to eat somewhat healthy, choices not to obey the law, choices not to care and choices not to get involved.

Your gonna sit back and tell me that all those folks with ruined lives and no hope, the ones that get abortions because their babies don't stand a chance have tried hard to stay on the straight and narrow, didn't try to make things better and really worked at getting things straight?

Maybe a small percentage, very small. But then again life can be cruel to a select few as it can be lucky and glorious as well to a select few.

The fetus person is innocent in the whole mess. Don't bloody your mitts on the notion that the baby is better off this way - that stain won't come out.

dang, thats pretty good...I should eat BBQ more often for lunch.
(Cashflyer should use some of that quote!)

Sorry Mike, we'll agree to disagree. I don't think that it is quite to clean and simple. I think it is a sweeping generalization that the abortions are had by crack hoes, and nice white guys like you and me make it work through our tireless American work ethic.

I go back to my "born lucky" thread. I still don't think that a lot of people got the point. I think in some cases the aborted fetus is better off. But we'll never know. I hate abortion. I'm one of the few in this thread who actually has seriously considered it with their significant other. I've known friends (not many thankfully) who did go through with it. And it was terrible for them. But *they* made a personal decision that that course of action was better than the alternative. And to me that is the key...it was *their* decision, not a bunch of white guys making laws for what *they* think is moral.

If men carried the babies I doubt we would be having this argument. And I'm dead serious about that.

+1

Do you believe in euthenasia? How about euthenasia for your pets? Why or why not?

You see what I'm getting at here I hope. . .

Sometimes you DO have to decide whether something is "better off" or not when they can't do it for themselves. Sad, but sometimes necessary.

At least 50% of women think abortion is an abomination. It is, at its core, anti-woman. Abortion violates everything that makes them a woman...If men carried babies, given they were responsible, you are damned right we wouldn't be having this conversation...It would be illegal and severely punished, as killing an extra-utero baby should be.

If it is not a baby, why do they call the earliest stage of pregnancy, pregnancy?...Why do women get upset when they have first trimester miscarriages?

Lets not bull***** ourselves.

and for every 100 crack hoes who abort, one delivers and of the 100 crack hoes who deliver, maybe 1 of those babies stands a chance of growing up to be a viable part of society. Small numbers agreed. Maybe my percentages are off and maybe not - but that fact still remains that if yu do come from opressed, depressed, repressed or generally *****ty environs the likelihood of comeing out of that world is slim...

But it is doable and that is where we must start to focus our social efforts on! If the only viable reason to really have an abortion is socially driven then that can be fixed yet it still doesn't provide a reason why a child should be eliminated prior to even be given a chance.

If abortion is the right of the mother then she must also have certain requirements that must be followed. If she wants it dead before birth, fine... but if she is to bring it to life then she better have her ***** together to rear that child proper or face the consequences.

There is an old book, written in the 1890s, "The King in Yellow". In it, the author takes a whack at the future of the world and speaks about places where people can go to end their lifes in dignity. I always thought it strange that people zero in on only abortion and tend to ignore the last stages of life for those with painful and totally incurable illnesses. I just had a friend die who had bone cancer. His last few months of life were sheer torture, yet we have laws that prohibit the medical profession from easing this final journey. And yet, as posted above, we show mercy to our sick pets.

It is a strange world we live in where nothing makes complete sense.

Source?

Even if they do think it's an abimination, they can probably all think of circumstances under which they'd have one (the old rape/incest scenario).

Let's assume you ARE correct though - if nothing else, this only underscores how difficult of a decision this would be for a woman to go through and only validate her decision to have one if she feels it necessary to do so. In other words, thank you for proving my earlier point.

Given the go ahead from my Dad, I would have smothered my Mother with a pillow. Yes. Why? Because when she was alive we talked about it and I promised her if she ever ended up like her Mother or Aunt (both died of dementia / Alzhiemers) that I out of anyone in the family would have the stomach to do it. It was her wish. She did not want to end her years without any sense of her surroundings or be a burdon on her family.

When the time came, my Father considered it but my wife (bless her soul) talked me out of it. Not because it was of the morality but rather the legality. In the end, she died. Problem solved right? Not really. She suffered. For 3+ years where she deteriated to a veg state. 5 years prior she knew what was in store yet remained powerless over it. I am pretty certain I could have done it, prepared myself, made peice with my God about it - so what was the difference?

She had decided what the quality of life was and what it meant. Her life was ending. Her potential was all but spent. She was in agony and there was no remedy. It was the "humane" thing to do. She had a right to die in dignity not in isolated querentine with no control of her body or mind. Death is a right shared by those who choose it. Unborn babies do not have the death right.

Nearly 100% of fetuses, having been given the opportunity to live, disagree.

I haven't talked about it much with my cousin, cause I am afraid of further alienating him from his father (as he advocated the abortion, naturally), but I am pretty sure he agrees with your statistic.

Abortion is whatever society says it is. Once upon a time society said it was murder. I see no reason society cannot proclaim that abortion is murder and dish out what ever punishment it feels like as a consequence. I sincerely hope society sees the light again and prosecutes murderers for what they are. Heartless killers of babies.

Just which amendment are you refering to?:confused:

billy...your question would be clearer if you included who you were asking the question to.