Maybe its just a big corporation thing. When I took a job at a big engineering and surveying company I saw a lot of backstabbing. I saw a lot of people, that would see a potential problem and instead of fixing it before it was a big problem, let it turn into a big problem THEN fix it. This was followed by them making sure everyone knew they just saved the day.

There's the ladder, lets all take each other out as we try to be the first to the top.

I do not miss those days at all.

I love the ammunition idea. . . Awesome!

The civil guys we have in my office are actually okay. The electrical guys are okay but you have no idea what the hell they're talking about half the time - and no social skills. The mechanical guys strangely enough are the worst. They're the biggest slackers I've ever come across and on paper, these guys have amazing credentials. They lie, duck questions, dodge responsibility, etc. It's really frustrating to a project manager because you're trying to keep things on track and on schedule and these "productivity plugs" keep screwing it up. Technically their work is fine (usually, although I've found and had to correct THEIR mistakes before) but their ability to understand concepts like "schedule" and "budget" and "you're-making-us-look-bad-to-the-client" are woefully lacking. First chance we get I think we're gonna' schite-can a couple of 'em.

In my job as a guide in the only tidal power generating plant in North America, I am often asked if I was an engineer before I retired.
I was/am not. I am just a 'gear-head who gets a kick out of the technology in the place.
However, when I am asked the question, I always check to see if my shoes are tied and sometimes I ask if my explaination was that bad. ;)
Les

That's funny because in my firm (less than 100 employees), there is but one project manager that cares about budget and keeping face with the client. The rest of them don't know a damn about the work they assign and expect the bull***** "experts" to waste hours on hours trying to engineer the most simplest thing. Then the PM's push the project out the door...On top of that, my management has found it fit to hire contract engineers that have 20+ years in the industry. Instead of being productive "experts" they soak up hours and produce crap that I have to fix. Yeap, I've got the "I'm good complex," but my designs work, and I take accountability for my work....and the work of other engineers working on my project sometimes.

A seasoned engineer should know the basics. I am constantly "dealing" with engineers because they can't do their own work which generally requires basic engineering. Then I get a blank stare...just before they march back to their desk to spend another hour or two thinking of the next stupid thing to do.

I've got no patience for supposed seasoned engineers that can't do the simpliest engineering. And the contracted guys are getting paid 2-3X what I'm getting paid...just so they can sit on my projects and take half of my day asking stupid questions. Worst is when they come to you for help...then expect you to do the work for them.

Those same idiots love to cooler talk and tell their buddies (we call them the "Whack Pack") how expert they are in all things. And one of them is a Trekkie....goes to conferences and even met his wife at a conference. They spend a good 2-3 hours jerking each other off so they can feel like experts.



I like what Chuck posted: "Ego and competitiveness. All good engineers have plenty of both and we all want to have the answer. The worst engineers I've met let it get in the way of the job at hand. The need to be "right" overwelms the need to arrive at the right answer."

I see some of this everyday...the need to be right which overwhelms good engineering ethics.

I'll add this to the list of worst characteristics for an engineer.

Those that take the stand that "that's the way it was done before...and that's what was on the drawing the client sent."

This requires no engineering. What the hell do we need the engineer for then? A good drafter could have done just that!

Granted some things don't need to be re-engineered, but the above type of engineer doesn't go so far as to question and review the design to see if it fits the current project! Errors from the old way or old drawings are carried forth.

It's a wonder how some of these supposive experts have remained in the industry for so long....I guess when you can bull***** the bull*****er that is your boss....you'll survive.

Sounds like an environmental problem due to the culture of the company you work for.
I work with mechanical engineers and I R one 2. Mostly we are too focused on the task(s) at hand to be rude or even notice if someone else is being obnoxious. Most of the engineers I work with are just a few years removed from school so maybe that helps. I'm the senior guy in terms of experience. This company likes to hire young kids fresh after graduation and then mold them into what they want. if the kid excels he is eventually moved into upper management. My job is to supply real world experience and training to them to match their booksmarts.
Often times it seems like I am training my next boss.

Chuck's post is one of the most accurate portrayals of engineers I have read and my wife is convinced it was written specifically about me. I don't know if that is good or bad.

I do own a pristine and rare copy of the prime directive and 2 books that show every version of the Enterprise spaceships down to the smallest details including blueprints and a complete explanation of the differences of each ship and the history.
Some of the details in the two books are not consistant but I've indentified and categorized the conflicting information and determined which details are correct and which are false.
I've read several theoretical papers on matter/anti-matter reactors like the ones used in the Enterprise and I actually think it could be possible.
I'm not a trekkie though, i've been to one trekkie convention and those guys are weird!

I think engineers need a little cinicism in there life. If you always thought something was adequate, you'd never brainstorm on ways to make it better.

Hey MichiganMat,
I'll trade job whinning stories. My job is to take these engineer types, make them customer friendly and bring them into the customers world. I implement ITIL across IT Departments. Talk about herding cats!
Best of luck to ya.

thanks toby, btw...nice shoes.

Heh heh, exactly. I think Software Engineer came into being shortly after Sanitation Engineer. Nothing like self imposed titles.

Still my favorite, as seen on a resume, was a guy who had experience as a "Sandwich Artist". Guess that's what they're called at Subway.

Before I retired, before I sold the equipment designed by our engineering dept, I worked with them as a Field engineer. Glorified Tech.
I learned quickly there are two types. The doers and the talkers.
The doers are too busy making things happen to get involved with any two bit water cooler bull.
The talkers are a legend in their mind, at least until it's nut cutting time.
Never knew what hit 'em.
I worked in my office and stayed as far away from the office crap as possible.
When one of these idiots stopped in my office, they got nothing. Soon learned to keep walking.
Best way to handle the fools, just get your coffee and keep working.

I've been writing software since 1985 and I'm trying to think of someone I've worked with that acted like a jerk and I can't. I've pretty much always worked for small companies though (2-8 engineers total).
-Chris