Pulled the trigger on a new 330i and an idea..

[TerryBPP]

I finalized a deal on a new 330i for the old lady today. She is happy as a clam. Took a bunch of negotiations with 3 dealers but I feel like I got a good deal. But it got me thinking.

There should be a site or forum where new car buyers and post there deals so that others can review them. For Example:

John Doe
2007 911 GT3
Dealership: Mecury of San Juan
List Price $105,982
Options: 26" wheels, chrome hub caps, etc.

Final Negotiated price $56,001.01

or the same for lease deals.

I would think this would murder the new car market as far as dealer profit. Aside from dealers trying to tamper with the results of the site.

The site could sell advertising to make a profit. What do you think?

[Halm]

I have always looked at Edmunds.Com "True Market Value" as pretty much what you are suggesting. It seemed to be right on the mark when I bought a '03 325Xi.

[TerryBPP]

I was thinking more along the lines of personal experience in deals.

[Halm]

Ahhh. . . Ok.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by TerryBPP
I was thinking more along the lines of personal experience in deals.

Try http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e90/ .

[mschuep]

I like the idea, but how would you motivate people to post ?

edit: what about a dealer friendly version, a place where the dealer simply reports the details of the car, and the price sold for... free advertising for them, lots more info for the site

[Rick Lee]

www.bimmerfest.com. I love my 330i!

[TerryBPP]

Originally posted by mschuep
I like the idea, but how would you motivate people to post ?

edit: what about a dealer friendly version, a place where the dealer simply reports the details of the car, and the price sold for... free advertising for them, lots more info for the site

I think the previous knowledge in the site would make people want to add to it, much like this site. If you see someone got a good deal wouldn't you want to show you got a better one?

I doubt a dealer is going to post the cars that people get a fair deal on. Last thing we need is more market hype.

[kaisen]

Too many variables and no controls. What is to stop someone from lying about their best deal? Someone posted $35500, why wouldn't you say $35400? As you said, you'd want to show how you did better. Variables like color, trade-ins, financing, leases, demonstrators, etc. would be too much.

If someone chooses a 'deal' based on $200-500 between dealers they should get a life, IMHO.

E

[Noah930]

I've tried to use Edmunds in the past. I don't know how accurate their "TMV" is. When I went car shopping 1.5 yrs ago, it was pretty unreliable for me. My parents bought a car a month or two later, and their experience was not congruent with "TMV" either. But I did go onto their message board section, where people post exactly what you suggest, Terry. People write in about their geographic location, perhaps the dealers they deal with, and the quotes/purchase prices they get. Interesting to see how geography plays a huge role in actual purchase price.

[speeder]

Originally posted by kaisen
Too many variables and no controls. What is to stop someone from lying about their best deal? Someone posted $35500, why wouldn't you say $35400? As you said, you'd want to show how you did better. Variables like color, trade-ins, financing, leases, demonstrators, etc. would be too much.

If someone chooses a 'deal' based on $200-500 between dealers they should get a life, IMHO.

E

Exactly. There is an old, and true, saying that people lie about what they pay for things. Cars are always cheaper in the story telling and diamonds/houses/yachts/etc. get more expensive.

[TerryBPP]

Originally posted by speeder
Exactly. There is an old, and true, saying that people lie about what they pay for things. Cars are always cheaper in the story telling and diamonds/houses/yachts/etc. get more expensive.

Very true. That would be the flaw in the system.


Kasien, I would barter for hours over $500 to a car dealer. But we are all not ballers like you.

[David]

I'm probably going to buy the wife a new 325i to replace her 323i in the next few months. When I spec'd out the 325 the way she want's (OK the way I want it) it was about $39K compared to $42K for a similar equipped 330. I don't see any difference except for the engine, brake size, and maybe tranny ratios. She's happy with the power and fuel economy of the 323 so I don't see the need for a 330. Actually she'd rather a have smaller engine than the 3.0 in the 325 so the fuel economy would be better.

Any tips on how to negotiate with BMW. I'd like to know what you paid too, if you don't mind so I have some idea what to shoot for. A PM would be great.

[Rick Lee]

Get a lightly used CPO car. You can save a ton of money and the warranty is better than the new one. I even got a tire warranty for an extra $600, good for 5 yrs., unlimited miles, no deductible, no limits on use. Screaming deal.

[TerryBPP]

Originally posted by 125shifter
I'm probably going to buy the wife a new 325i to replace her 323i in the next few months. When I spec'd out the 325 the way she want's (OK the way I want it) it was about $39K compared to $42K for a similar equipped 330. I don't see any difference except for the engine, brake size, and maybe tranny ratios. She's happy with the power and fuel economy of the 323 so I don't see the need for a 330. Actually she'd rather a have smaller engine than the 3.0 in the 325 so the fuel economy would be better.

Any tips on how to negotiate with BMW. I'd like to know what you paid too, if you don't mind so I have some idea what to shoot for. A PM would be great.

330 has xenon lights, 17" wheels, premium interior, premium sound, 55 more hp and crisper suspension. But you can get into a well equipped 325i for around 35k.

I used the managers aggressive sales tactics as a way to get leverage over them, then I went to another BMW dealer and got there lowest offer, then went back to the original dealer and made them beat it.

About 3 days worth of battling but I got a $42,840 stickered car for $37,050. Pretty fair deal for a loaded 330.

[kaisen]

Originally posted by TerryBPP

Kaisen, I would barter for hours over $500 to a car dealer. But we are all not ballers like you.

I understand that $500 sounds like a lot of money, and it is, but....

You have to assign an opportunity cost to anything you do. If you are willing to give up a few hours that you could be spending with your family or working and generating revenue/income, it COST you money to spend that time negotiating.

The more you make, and the more hours you work, the more precious your free time becomes. When you have kids it becomes evident.

There is also a value in buying from a good local dealer. They earn their reputation by taking care of their customers. They need to make a fair profit to continue to do so. Get 3 dealers involved in slashing their own throats to earn your business and pretty soon you will see the level of service decline. Understand that there is a difference between Costco and Neiman Marcus. Would you buy your BMW from Costco? The local dealer WILL take care of you if you show that you value the relationship.

We tip a valet for good service. We tip a bartender for good service. We tip a waitress for good service. Good tipping is what, 15-20%? But we are willing to cut our dealer's throat over 1.3% ($500 on a $38000 car)??? If you tipped your bartender 5% would you expect good service next time?

I'm not suggesting that we all lay down and pay through the nose. Just pay market value. Figure out what a 'fair' deal is and keep it local, especially on a new car where you will be visiting that dealer for maintenance and warranty work for the next few years.

Spending 10 hours and driving all over town for $500 and lower service seems like a diminished return.

But hey, we can take pride in 'winning' on price.

E

[TerryBPP]

Would you spend 5 hrs fabricating a part or detailing your car? You could pay someone but its not the same satisfaction.

As far as respect for the dealer, I have never met one that wouldn't cut there moms belly open if they swallowd a nickel. If I had a personal, previous relationship with one thats a different story.

Then again maybe the Corvette dealers are different kasien.

[Rick Lee]

Since I'm in sales, I don't like to beat the car guys up on price too much. If they let you walk away, then obviously you offered too little. If they take it, then it must be good for them. On my 330i they let me walk away. Price was acceptable, but their offer on my trade was not. They'd seen my Porsches before so they understood when I said I simply had no room for the BMW until I unloaded the Mazda. When they heard my GF has just ordered a Mini from them and the salesguy reminded the boss that I had brought another GF there a few yrs. ago to buy a 325i, they upped their offer on my trade and that sealed the deal for me. I am very happy with it.

[MikeSid]

Here's another option. Pay sticker, but take foreign delivery.

My brother just paid sticker for a new 330ci for his wife, took delivery in Munich. BMW takes approx 8% off sticker, gives you 1.5 free RT tickets on Lufthansa, 2 weeks Euro insurance, and a factory tour and free shipping to your local dealership. If you add the airfare and 8% discount, it's about what you can squeeze out of a local dealership if you work at it.

While in Germany, my bro got to see USvGhana World Cup game (after paying 400 Euros for 2 tickets from a scalper) drive the autobahn in his new car, and zip down to Italy and back. Car arrives here in 6 weeks. Pretty nice trip if ya ask me.

Now...I'm not a fan of buying new... but if you're buying new you can either knock down the price or take delivery overseas.

Porsche has a Euro delivery option...but it doesn't offer any discount or airfare. I think Volvo has the best perks, but you have to want a Volvo.

[kaisen]

Originally posted by TerryBPP
Would you spend 5 hrs fabricating a part or detailing your car? You could pay someone but its not the same satisfaction.

If you are playing pricing games with dealers for 'satisfaction', be my guest. Most of us have different hobbies.

As far as respect for the dealer, I have never met one that wouldn't cut there moms beely open if they swallowd a nickel. If I had a personal, previous relationship with one thats a different story.

You might have a personal relationship with your dealer if you didn't feel like that and act upon those feelings. It MIGHT be true that dealers are all scum, but when we engage in games as buyers, they will engage in games as sellers. It is my experience that if you make friends with the dealer, they will treat you fairly. If you treat them crappy, they will do the same. Find a dealer with a good reputation, treat them well, pay a fair price, and it goes a LONG way toward your car kharma in the long run.

Then again maybe the Corvette dealers are different kasien.

No, it's a poor marketing strategy when Chevrolet dealers sell $9995 Aveos and $72000 Corvette Z06's. Again with the Costco / Neiman Marcus analogy. The average new $21K Malibu has $1700 total mark-up from invoice after holdback to MSRP, where a Z06 has $9800. Think you'll get the same treatment buying the Malibu? Think the Chev dealer has the same level of salespeople, facilities, service loaners, etc. as a Porsche dealership??

Then again, some people wouldn't care as long as they got the best price. I'm just glad we don't all feel that way.

E