Example of Supermans' "Workers Paradise"

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by dhoward
People can't provide "references" anymore.
"Yes, Mr. Dikhead worked here from January to March."
That's all we can say.
And actually they (legal) want us to start referring to a toll-free number to verify employment dates.

Yep, no more references, just "verification".

[dhoward]

So now, you have to find out for yourself that a prospective employee is an incompetent, alcoholic child molester.

[Rodeo]

The insurance companies that defend these claims don't give $$ away for free. $40k in my jurisdiction would be in the upper 1% of all workers comp awards (my educated guess). There is a reason they settled this claim for that kind of scratch. Either the guy is a really good con artist or his injuries are more serious than represented.

Ask anyone walking out of court what happened, and 50% of them will tell you they got royally screwed. Maybe they did, maybe their perspective is a bit skewed.

As a law professor of mine used to say, "justice is what the other guy gets when you lose."

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
The insurance companies that defend these claims don't give $$ away for free. $40k in my jurisdiction would be in the upper 1% of all workers comp awards (my educated guess). There is a reason they settled this claim for that kind of scratch. Either the guy is a really good con artist or his injuries are more serious than represented.

Ask anyone walking out of court what happened, and 50% of them will tell you they got royally screwed. Maybe they did, maybe their perspective is a bit skewed.

As a law professor of mine used to say, "justice is what the other guy gets when you lose."

Of course it's in the low end, most awards are for "time lost" or ,mileage.

Second I didn't argue the severity of his injuries, just that I was not negligent in causing them. The system is setup to make me prove I did NOT aggravate even EXISTING injuries I knew nothing about.


Your kind of case?

[gaijindabe]

Rodeo - look at the original post.

"I had an employee work for me for about a year then he had an "incident" where he bumped his hand. After that he started complaining of hand pain. Turns out he had VERY advanced arthritis in both hands."

Very advanced arthritis is serious - but it does not come about with one year employment or one incident. Why should lendaddy be stuck with the bill (for higher workers comp premiums) for this pre-exisiting condition?

As for jury awards or the threat of going to trial - what happends in New England is not what happens in other parts of this country..

[Rodeo]

No, I have never done workers comp.

I understand one of your points ... you are correct that he did not have to prove you negligent. Only that the injuries are "work-related."

That's the trade-off in workers comp statutes: Negligence is not required, but awards are substantially lower. Its a balance of interests between worker and employer.

But he DOES have to prove his injuries were "work-related." You have no burden to prove or disprove anything. It's all on him. If he makes his case, he wins, if he does not, he loses.

The insurance company apparently thought he would win if it went to trial.

[Nathans_Dad]

Well Rodeo, I think the equation was more that the insurance company thought that it would cost them more than $40k to fight the case, hence why they settled.

In my single experience with a civil lawsuit, it became painfully clear right away that the issue was no longer who was right or wrong, it was a war of attrition with both sides just concerned about how much it would cost them to keep fighting versus any settlement they may or may not get.

[lendaddy]

My insurance council basically stated:

"does he use his hands in production".

Me: "yep"

Him "Work related"

Me: "Sweet".

Also, don't forget that it does not have to be an incident, it can be a cumulative "illness".

[lendaddy]

The reason they settled is that the surgury is $32k which they would have definitely had to pay for. So his balance is really only $8k of which his lawyer got $6k. But.........he's not required to get the surgury and he won't. I assure you he won't. Hence the scam.

[lendaddy]

And yet another side note, Comp is not classical insurance anymore. It's more of a no interest loan program. I say that not to be funny or to exaggerate, I am serious. My agent said that some certain amount is covered (it's low) and after that I will be forced to repay the entire award over X period (no interest though WOOOHOOO). So this guy thinks he just took the insurance companies money........no, he took it right out of my pocket.

[kaisen]

The system is VERY broken. But what is a better alternative? Seriously.

[lendaddy]

Thanks Wayne, and yes the Comp situation is one of the scariest aspects of business.

I golfed with a guy that broke his foot falling out of a tree stand while hunting. He was told by the union guys to tough it out till Monday and "fall" out of his truck. So suddenly he got comp pay on top of his bills getting paid.

After telling this story he heard this loud clunk and turned to me just in time to see my jaw bang off the tee marker. he was incredulous......"Thats why we pay for comp insurance man".

Like Wayne says, just wait till "working the system" gets more widespread. My story above shows how it's getting societally acceptable to do so. Hold on to your ass.

[turbo6bar]

Originally posted by kaisen
The system is VERY broken. But what is a better alternative? Seriously.

Find an alternative or learn to bow down to our new Indian and Chinese overlords. We need them to finance the debt on our crumbling infrastructure.

ldaddy, thank goodness I don't have employees. You are quite a man for putting up with the BS.

[Rodeo]

My state cleaned up the workers comp system years ago. It works pretty well now by all accounts. The single, state-sponsored insurer is doing just fine, and the premiums are reasonable.

Our only recent problem was with the Board of Directors taking outrageous perks and doing favors (low premiums) for all their friends.

Fraud and corruption will find a foothold in all human activities. You deal with it and build in checks and balances. Which work until somebody smarter and more dishonest comes along.

[daleflesburg]

I'd like to make one point.

When the politicians blame companies for leaving the country and going to Mexico or China, they never blame themselves for the stupid legal system they devised.

A day does not go by that I do not get another newsletter clearifying what we need to do to legally protect ourselves. I run a little company with 43 employees, and I think I need a lawyer on retainer to make sure we are following all of the requlations properly. I really do not blame anyone for seriously considering moving any manufacturing "offshore".

Do you think for a minute that the Chinese goverment puts such a heap of regulations on their employers?

Read Bill Gates' article on how helpfull they were in helping Microsoft to establish an R&D center in China.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
My state cleaned up the workers comp system years ago. It works pretty well now by all accounts. The single, state-sponsored insurer is doing just fine, and the premiums are reasonable.

With all due respect, how would you know this? How would my situation have been different in your state? Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the great experiment so if your State has a better solution all the better.

[daleflesburg]

PS:

Years ago I worked for a company in Ohio.

We bought shirts for a baseball team that some of our employees played with.

One of our 40 year old, 40 pound overweight, former non-athlete, who thought he was something tore up his knee sliding into second base.

Guess what. Workers Comp paid.

Why?

It was a "company sponsored" event.

I have never again bought a shirt or anything else for any "team", no matter whether it was bowling or checkers.

Sad, but true..

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by lendaddy
With all due respect, how would you know this? How would my situation have been different in your state? Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the great experiment so if your State has a better solution all the better.

I don't know if your situation would have been different in RI.

What you describe is a guy with a pre-existing condition that made his condition more severe due to a work-related injury. I must say that I have no idea how the arthritis plays into this, as I don't believe there is a surgical remedy for that, and he was paid the cost of surgery. There are hints that he may be a malingerer, but you have given us nothing solid in that respect.

Your lawyer appeared to accept the bona fides of the worker's claim with no objection. That tells me a lot. So far the system appears to be working exactly as intended. He hurt his hand on the job and wants it fixed. No pain and suffering, no outrageous lawyer fees, just medical expenses to cure his work-related injury, with a small fee to his lawyer.

Your problem is paying for a $30k surgery that is medically necessary but you suspect the guy will never have. I understand that, but hardly evidence of widespread fraud and abuse.

Should they make him get the surgery if he gets paid for it? Not a bad idea ... but no reason to throw out the entire system.

[legion]

As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death
I take a look at my life and realize there's not much left
Cause I've been working and lifting so long that
Even my woman thinks that my libido is gone
But I ain’t never crossed a boss that didn't deserve it

Me be treated like a punk, you know that's unheard of

You better watch how you talking, and where you walking
Or you and your cronies might be payin' da premiums
I really hate to brag but I gotta say
As they pay I see myself in a fishin' boat ... fool
I'm the kinda guy that the greenhorns want to be like
On my ass in the court, giving dep's in the wood booth

They been spending most their lives living in the worker's paradise
We keep spending most our lives living in the worker's paradise

Look at the situation, they got me facing
I can't be expected to work, I was taught to scam
So I gotta be down with the law team
Too much television watching got me chasing sirens

I'm a educated fool with money on my mind
Got my 40 in my hand and a gleam in my eye
I'm a doped up loser playin' the law game
And my union is down so don’t arouse my anger ... fool
Work ain’t nothing but an injunction away
I'm living life for free man, what can I say?
I'm home now but will I live to see the couch?
The way things is going I don't know

Tell me why are we so blind to see
That the ones we hurt are you and me.

They been spending most their lives living in the worker's paradise
We keep spending most our lives living in the worker's paradise

Power and the money, money and the power
Minute after minute, hour after hour
Everybody's running, but half of them ain’t looking
What's going on in the kitchen, but I don't know what's cooking
They say I've got to learn but nobody's here to teach me
If they can't understand it, how can they reach me

I guess they can't
I guess they won't
I guess they front
That's why I know my life is out of luck ... fool

They been spending most their lives living in the gangsta's paradise
We keep spending most our lives living in the gangsta's paradise

Tell me why are we so blind to see
That the ones we hurt are you and me.
Tell me why are we so blind to see
That the ones we hurt are you and me.

[lowyder993s]

Originally posted by Rodeo
What you describe is a guy with a pre-existing condition that made his condition more severe due to a work-related injury. I must say that I have no idea how the arthritis plays into this, as I don't believe there is a surgical remedy for that, and he was paid the cost of surgery...So far the system appears to be working exactly as intended.

What appears to be exactly as intended? Last employer foots the whole bill? How'd your practice like to take a 30k hit? Think it's fair he should pay for the surgery even tho his culpability is say 5-10%. What if your sec'y pulls up lame w/ carpo-tunnel, even tho she's been w/ you less than a year. What if she'd been butchering chickens or working in a grocery store for the last decade. You gonna pull 30 large out to make her right? How much effort on your part goes into putting 30 k IN the bank? Being a business owner, (Union shop in California) it galls me to hear this kinda schit. People who work for wages have no f'in' idea what it takes to put dollar one in the bank. BTW..."small fee to a lawyer"...oxymoron.