Authenticating watches

[HardDrive]

I have been looking at a Baume and Mercier watch (pic below). There are some deals out there available through Amazon and some E-bay dealers. I am all for saving a buck, but after the fact, is there an easy way to be assured that the watch in genuine? Would fake watch makers really go through the trouble of making such an obscure, non 'bling bling' model? All BM watches have serial numbers.

I can't say I have a local jeweler I trust (I'm in Seattle).

[stuartj]

Its less likey that a B&M will be a fake than a Rolex, TAG or Omega- but a stroll thru the nightmarkets of Bangkok will show show you nothing is impossible.

Its more likey that the watch is "grey market", that is, being re-sold by a non authorised dealer, sometimes with the serial numbers removed. This can lead, I believe in the US, to warranty being voided by the mfr.

If its offered either new or as ex cond second hand with numbers, box and papers, you should be OK- but be very careful unless you have knowledge of the marnaufacture and the model.

A good piece of advice is to research your seller. I have bought many watches from private individuals and dealers over the web and from O/S and never had a problem. However, as always....Exercise caution.

Nice dress watch, BTW. A friend in the US had B&M, i thought it was a very nicely executed watch.

Stuart

[Isabo]

At the moment knock-offs are available in Italy of B&M and anything else you can think of.

[Joeaksa]

No one that I know of would remove a serial number. More likely a watch without a serial number is either a fake or it could be a real one that has a replacement "non-factory" case.

Have someone pull the back off and then inspect it closely. A real B-M watch will say so inside on the movement. Isabo is correct, that you can get almost any watch you want on the black market. The chinese are very good at copying almost anything...

[scottmandue]

Nice looking watch, Like Stuart said check out the seller and email them to ask some specific questions about the watch. If they are a reputable dealer they shouldn't mind answering a few questions.

I am a member of a watch BBS and they have helped me out a lot. I was shopping for a Accutron spaceveiw and found out people weare building fakes out of spare parts. If you are interested you could check that BBS out at www.pmwf.com

I was SO close to buying a one of a kind B&M prototype watch but it was just a little too pricey for me.

On a side note, I'm working today but decided to celebrate the 4th by wearing my Tag Heuer... usually wear a Casio to work.

[stuartj]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
No one that I know of would remove a serial number. More likely a watch without a serial number is either a fake or it could be a real one that has a replacement "non-factory" case.

Well, the world is big place, Joe. Although most commonly one hears of this practice in the USA.

Removing S/Ns from new watches is a common practice amongst grey market dealers, very often internet dealers. The watches are not fake and are new, shop stock or as new.

The Swiss industry protects its distribution channels and brands tightly, and pretty much all of the good and mid range houses do not sell, or allow their delaers to sell, over the internet.

So the authorised dealers sell stock to non authorised grey dealers who then sell discounted watches on the web. The watch's papers will not carry the stamp of an authorised dealer, but of the discounting grey dealer. The serial numbers are very often removed because should that watch turn up for manufacturer's service or warranty- or should the mfr simply ask for the SN from the grey dealer (and they have been known to surreptitiously do this, acting as purchasers), with the papers stamped by a non authorised dealer, the mfr or agent is going to reference that watch to the authorised dealer to whom it was originally delivered and who should have retailed the watch, and likely discontinue with that retailer as a dealer of its watches.

Even the cheap fakes usually have a (bogus) SN on them, BTW.

[javadog]

Since there are quite a few ways to counterfeit a watch, from cheap, nasty knockoffs to incorrect movements assembled into correct cases, I'll offer a suggestion that will give you a little peace of mind.

Don't try and save too much on the purchase price.

In general, a watch will cost a dealer about 65% of the retail price, or so. Some margins will be a little higher, others a little lower. There are dealers out there that will sell a watch for a few hundred bucks above their cost (we're talking about watches under $5k here). Most of them will advertise on the internet and in the larger watch publications. In some cases, you will not get the original papers at this price, for a variety of reasons. I'd suggest buying from one of these dealers. You won't get the absolute lowest price, but you can be assured of getting a real watch. Note that I am talking about dealers that are based in the US and have actual, physical stores that you can walk in and touch. I am not talking about internet-only stores, or those based in the Far East. If you buy from a dealer that is in another state, you can usually aslo save the amount of sales tax.

I'd also suggest that you buy new, as opposed to pre-owned. Used watches are a risk, no matter what the seller says. They may need a service, which may be hard to determine unless you have real knowledge of movements and a fair bit of sophisticated test gear. The fact that a watch keeps good time is not enough to determine the condition of a movement. Likewise, a watch that has been serviced by a dealer's staff, or an independent service facility, may not be properly done. I have had poor experiences with some of the biggest names in independent servicing operations in this country. I now will only send a watch to a manufacturer for service.

Every once in a great while, a dealer will sell off some watches at a really attractive price, when dropping a line of watches from their store. I have been able to buy a Patek Phillipe, a Vacheron & Constantin, a Concord and others for 30 to 40 cents on the dollar, in this fashion. You have to keep your eyes open and be in the right place and time to take advantage of deals like these.

Happy shopping,
JR

[Shuie]

Unless its a steel Rolex, ask for a 'best cash price' if you are going to buy new. You will probably get 20-30% off of retail for a Baume & Mercier.

There is nothing wrong with buying preowned at all. Here's the plan for never getting hosed on a pre-owned watch deal:

Forget the watch, always buy the seller.

Ask for references and check them on timezone and watchnet. A 3 day inspection should be a condition of ANY high dollar watch deal. Its standard protocol when dealing with expensive watches so don't consider buying a watch without it. When you get the watch, get it inspected by a watchmaker or the local authorized dealer.

[pwd72s]

You're in Seattle? Give Jan Nesbit a ring. 206-623-1211
Nesbit's Service
1425 4th Ave. #402

She's a fine watch specialist. If you get the inspection deal, I'm sure that for a fee, she'd give any fine watch an honest "PPI". (edit) She services Rolex & other fine watches. I bought a strap for my Hamilton from her...found her name in the Hamilton booklet that came with my watch.

[Rick Lee]

My only experience with high end watches has been with Breitling. But I have heard from several authorized retailers that Breitling will not warranty any watches bought through the Internet. There are plenty of them out there for discount prices and are advertised as real. But every single ad says the retailer provides the warranty, not Breitling. So the watch may well be real, but you'd have to ship it back to wherever for warranty work. And this brings me to my latest dealings with Breitling, where I bought a new and real Hercules from an authorized dealer in Hong Kong (bought it in person). But it stopped working as soon as the store closed and I had to fly home to the US the next day. Had this been from some discount retailer, I'd have had to pay about $70 for shipping and insurance to get it back to Hong Kong. Since I got it from an authorized dealer, Breitling USA is taking care of it for me. And that makes the extra $200-$300 in price well worth it for me.

[sammyg2]

I bought a really nice RULEX from a street vendor in TJ, he swore crossed his heart it was real ...........

[pwd72s]

Now I'm worried about authenticating my Timex collection... (edit) Actually, I hadfun surfing the site Scottmandu mentioned. That led me to a site where a guy "custom makes" military style watches...you picking the movement, face style, hands, band, etc. Enough combos for a guy to make a watch uniquely his. Here's a link:
http://www.mkiiwatches.com/