Did we shoot down Kim Jong Il's missile, when will we read about it in the NYT?
 

Do you suppose we have the capability to shoot down an ICBM? Cruising around the area with a high powered laser mounted on a plane, you could put your laser on the fuel pump, or whatever a rocket has, ignite the fuel, blow up the rocket and have it look like a malfunction.

Was reminded of some Discovery Channel program I saw by a radio program that mentioned this subject.

If we do have this ability, how long before it makes the front page of the New York Times? This would be something that makes the current administration look good, so they would be loathe to print it. This is also the sort of thing the public deserves to know, just in case the government decides to turn it on San Francisco or something.

The New York Times wouldn't dare report on a classified weapons program.

Oh, wait...

Hell, the way some of the bleeding heart libs on this forum (and elsewhere) are pouting, lets just open up all our classified programs and secrets and give it all away! Might as well give the terrorists the keys to our bases and hand them a jet or two as well.

Unfortunately its going to take another terrorist strike here in the US to get people to realize that WE ARE AT WAR with these people and you do not give secrets away!

Oh yea, the next terrorist attack was just foiled. Tunnels in NYC were going to be targeted. Cannot understand why but a Moslem man was arrested! Who could have imagined it? I would have thought it might be a 68 year old Catholic nun but ya just never know these days! :)



FBI disrupts New York City tunnel plot By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Writer
26 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Authorities have disrupted planning by foreign terrorists for an attack on New York City tunnels, two law enforcement officials said Friday.

FBI agents monitoring Internet chat rooms used by extremists learned in recent months of the plot to strike a blow at the city's economy by destroying vital transportation networks, one official said.

Lebanese authorities, acting on a U.S. request, have arrested one of the alleged plotters, identified as Amir Andalousli, the other official said. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is still under way.

A senior Lebanese security official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the suspect was arrested a month ago. He said his real name is as Assem Hammoud, and that the native of Beirut admitted to the plot.

Sen. Charles Schumer (news, bio, voting record), D-N.Y., said, "This is one instance where intelligence was on top of its game and discovered the plot when it was just in the talking phase."

The planning for the tunnel attacks was first reported by the New York Daily News in its Friday editions, the first anniversary of the attacks on the London transportation system that killed 52 people.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060707/ap_on_re_us/new_york_tunnels_plot

The FBI was monitoring an Internet Chat Room?? That is a violation of civil liberties!! We should be able to discuss the weather with Muslim extremists if we want to, it's in the Constitution!! Just another example of Bush overstepping his bounds and listening in on the average American citizen...

The answer is no. Unless we had someone there do sabotage to it.

Hey Joe, wasn't it you who implied rather forcefully that it was the ABL and Fint was at the trigger.

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/abl.htm

Pretty old news....

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/abl/index.html

And from the horse's mouth.....

Doubtful. We can't even shoot down our own missiles with the opportunity to "get a bead" on them ahead of time and knowing exactly where they're going.

I've never seen anyone here say that. Chat rooms and BBS are "public" spaces. Telephone calls? That's another story...

Joe, where in that story does it mention his religion?

Surprisingly enough...we have lots of capabilities and conduct lots of operations that we do not report to the New York Times. Much of the time....other parts of the military/government do not even know. Why provide the enemy any more help than the liberals do already?

Yes, we have that technology. No, we didn't use it. no, we don't want everyone else to know if it works or not, it's actually more effective if we don't use it.

Sorry, spent a lot of time in Beirut over the years so I still keep in touch with news and events there. Some is from contacts still living there and others through news and internet reports.

I saw this info in a report from a Beirut news outlet, then heard it from a friend there. Amir Andalousi (real name is Assem Hammoud) is now linked to Al Queda and had admitted that he just returned from training with Al Queda and confessed to having a part in the plot to bomb the NYC tunnels. BTW, there are no Christians (or anyone of any religion other than Islam) with Al Queda.

Steve,

Yes, I did mention it and have never retracted my statement. Fintstone has also said that he has done some work in that area.

Did I say that they actually did shoot down the missle? No but that should not slow you liberals down for one second and assume that now you guys are weaving some story about this whole scenerio...

I just wish that we had a plane or satellite able to shoot the next set of missles that NK fires. Wonder if we do? Remember that the F117 Stealth fighter was a black program for over 7 years and operational the entire time before being released to the public. :)

Your tax dollars at work!

Alright... all you SCWDP members need to keep on the QT.

Now you have gone and done it! If they find out about Leland and his connection to this secret group of 911 fanatics there will be hell to pay! And he has a current security clearance so we know that he is privy to ALL of the secrets in the miltary! :)

not if they're private

except when they're public

and you know they were public how? ;)

Re: Did we shoot down Kim Jong Il's missile, when will we read about it in the NYT?
 

I work on the sister program to ABL (Airborne Laser) - known as Advanced Tactical Laser. Yes, we do have the technology. ABL is designed to shoot down a missile in the boost phase. GMD (Ground-Based Midcourse Defense) is designed to shoot it down post-boost phase using an intercepter (known as the EKV). I worked on that program for a couple of years, too.

These programs (ABL and GMD) are pretty common knowledge. Heck, there's even a wikipedia article on Advanced Tactical Laser. Some of the details in the article are inaccurate, but I'm not going to correct them. :>)

Mike

Actually Joe, I think it is going to take a nuclear weapon going off before the people of the World unite to take on the terrorists. If 3000 dead doesn't keep the Worlds attention, it will take much much more.

Unfortunately, if one of those plots succeed, The US gov't will be blamed and ridiculed for not doing enough. If they are found out and don't succeed, we are paranoid and over blowing it and infringing on civil rights...

I was listening to the radio on this, someone (forget who) said hey shot if off to impress Iran, China and Venezuela - like a product demo. Korea has been selling them stuff for years, this is just another example.

I bet we could shoot it down. But why tell anyone? I think we just sit back and quietly ***** with them.

They have not launched enough to find all the bugs: it really is rocket science. Some poor solder joint vibrated loose, or a large wire was too close to another in a connector and arced. All sorts of stuff happens even with all the engineering and quality control in the US. To expect NK to have success on these missiles is unrealistic. I'm sure some program manger over there has gotten a new job by now. The failure was a loss of face.

so why then all the hubbub about the Bush admin not being in an uproar?

AFAIK, we've never been able to shoot down an ICBM in simulations without 'cheating.'

It's theoretically possible, and we've thrown 20+ years and billions at it, but in all practicality, it's a long shot.

We have enough trouble shooting down the descendents of the German V2 -- Scuds. It's still not clear if the Patriot missiles ever hit one.

If NK sent an ICBM toward Hawaii, we would be justified in shooting it down.

If we succeeded, the Bush administration would (and should) make a huge deal out of it. If we failed, the loss of 'face' with NK would be too big a price.

So the only alternative, should the taep o dong (gotta love the name) be fired toward any US territory would be to attempt to intercept it in secret and reveal the attempt only if it were successful (not that anyone could prove it one way or another).

Anyone watch The Daily Show's "coverage"f this missile?
Mike

Classic.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0KRzT-smOE8&search=daily%20show%20dong

actually I thought the admin overplayed this from the start.

But I think you are asking why some say the Bush admin is not doing enough to stop NK as one of the axis of evil compared to what we did to Iraq. It always seemed to me that NK is more of a threat to the US than Iraq could ever have hoped to be, but that neither them nor Iran should have been raised up in stature as part of an axis of evil.

The war on terrrorism is valid and worthwhile, but I guess there was a need by the admin to put a name to the terrorist enemy. Much easier for the public to point at and scorn than nebulous terrorists all over the world.

Tech, you are basing your statement on what you see on TV.
the patriot system was obsolete in 1991. We had much better systems to shoot down the scuds but we chose not to use them. I got that information straight from a man who helped design and test them.

The tests you refer to that have not been successful fit into one of two categories, either they are testing a new unproven system that is not part of the operational systems already deployed, or they could possibly be a charade meant to confuse and discredit foreign intelligence. Yep, it really does happen occasionally. Sometimes rig a test, but often they rig it to fail.
Suppose a certail technology is stolen by a foreign country. Maybe it is part of a new system, maybe it is an entire system. For the sake of argument we'll say the plans for a new guidance system is stolen.
We can't really get it back, so we make it look like it is worthless hoping the other government will give up on it.
I am the last person to go for the tin foil hat conspiracy stuff but sometimes................. example as follows:

I remember when the media were talking about the first published cruise missle tests. They were not sucessful.
We had a good laugh about it because we knew the cruise missles had been sucessfully tested and proven almost ten years earlier. Hell I saw one being tested and it worked slicker than owl snot.
the ones that were failing in the news were using a landscape and landmark recognition guidance system that really didn't work very well at first.
They were trying something new that didn't work, at the time I didn't understand why they would show the world a failed test but keep secret the sucessful tests. that was when it was explained to me.

The systems that came before and were working just fine were based on a primitive GPS style system that was accurate to 50 feet.
both systems underwent further development and at one time the landscape recognition system was more accurate but required a great deal of programming and recon.
By the time we had filled the skys with GPS sattelites the GPS guided cruise missles took over and the other style were deemed obsolete. Guess which system we were shotting at Badgad in the desert shield? Hint: it wasn't the good stuff.

BTW, our cruise missles are all subsonic, right?
Ummmmmmm wouldn't it be cool if we had supersonic stealth cruise missles with almost zero detectable cross section and minimal infra-red signature. Don't hear it, don't see it, can't shoot it down, boom. Supposed to be for nukes but can be used with conventional war heads.

Imagine a supersonic torpedo..............
Visualize a torpedo that goes underwater but doesn't touch the water. Imagine the polaris initial launch sequence but on a horizontal plane and an effective range of over 100 miles.
These are not secrets that the other guys don't know about, but I will get a kick out of it when they anounce this "brand new" technology in 15 years. By that time they will have something better and will be looking for a way to at least get some use from this older stuff.

If your enemies think your technology is 15 years behind, he only has to stay 10 years behind to beat you.
That means you are net 10 year ahead at all times.

Well, that's pretty credible then. I'm sure the families of soldiers killed in Scud attacks will be relieved we didn't use "the good stuff."

Honestly, your post makes no sense at all.

EDIT:
BTW, what we all saw on TV was Bush1 praising the Patriot missile builders at their factory for their incredible accuracy. Oh, and of course, se sold Patriot batteries to Israel.

My post makes no sense TO YOU.
Read it again.
The US government holds back our latest and greatest, just in case.
The patriot missle defence system was not the latest and greatest, it had been replaced by something that was.

As for the families of the soldiers?
I will pray for them but I have to say this:
soldiers are trained to fight and sometimes die. They are brave volunteers who understand that they may die while defending our country and accept that. Their families should do the same.

Not like that b!tch Sheehan who keeps running around bad mouthing the president because her son got killed in Iraq. Last I checked there is no draft. If her son got killed in Iraq and she has to blame someone, why not blame the guy who volunteered for it, her son. Nooooooo, that would make too much sense. What a nutcase.

Actually, I don't think this is totally true. The government doesn't really "hold back" anything. They might not advertise their capabilities to the average citizen, but they're using what they've got.

The Patriot system was the "latest and the greatest", but it was not initially designed to intercept missiles - it was designed to intercept aircraft IIRC.

The "latest and greatest" now is called....wait for it...the Patriot! Patriot Advanced Capability or PAC-3 to be exact. We build the seekers at our facility.

Here's a question - what is our current defense against cruise missiles?

Mike

Let's just hope they don't get the idea to have Hyundai build the missiles. ;)

Believe it ou not, radar guided guns, in the terminal phase. Simple is better.

Well, I think the real answer is that we have no defense against them. At least according to the Army. That's the program I am working on now...

Mike

Hmmm...was it back in the '80s something like that shot down a low-flying Iranian passenger jet; or did it shoot up a cruise ship. I can't remember. The gun was on the back of a destroyer. A Phalanx, I think it was called. - I'd search it out, but it doesn't matter: we can't shoot down their missiles (no tech) and their missiles can't reach us (no tech), so it's a wash.

I have posted this before, you might want to check it out.

http://www.hedfud.com/media/displayimage.php?album=2&pos=114

The Navy has decided that the only defense is in the terminal phase. We equip all our ships for that threat.

The Iranian Airliner was shot down by an Aegis class cruiser with a surface to air missile.. Phalanx is the close in missile defense system for navy ships.

We can shot down their missiles. For goodness sake, do some homework. ;)

As I posted earlier, there is a lot out there that is not even known to folks in the business...and certainly not civilians. Many systems and capabilities are compartmented or "special access" and even people with the proper clearance are not allowed access unless they are "read into" the program. This is especially true for new capabilities or systems in R&D. The "latest and greatest" production systems are far from the newest experimental technology.

Click here.

Randy

when i read about 5yrs ago the Russians had the best ones. Great story of it's dynamics.