I'd say you are at odds with nearly 90% of all Christians on that one.

All of these replies are the perfect example of "my interpretation is the right one" school of thought that permeates religion. And, would you stop this "end of world" stuff. Sheer BS. When? No I really mean when? Can't tell me? Then it's just your opinion, not some god's will. Ever notice how just some people “know” god's will and they all seem to have different versions, even within the same group or church? So which one of these fairytale versions should you choose?
Look at their answers to all difficult questions; they all come back to “man does not know the mind of god” or “stop trying to make god in your image”. How about, “we don’t have a clue, but we’re really good at making it up as we go along”.

Try some logic and knowledge, it works miracles!

I bet it's higher than that :D


I'll stand by my statements as truth.


KT

No, I will not. NEVER.



Sounds like the evolutionist's punch line.:p


KT

Fair enough KT, if you think you should spread your fairytales. Then I think that I should respond by showing all the holes and untruths in these types of posts. After all, I believe a have a sacred duty to spread enlightenment and knowledge to all the repressed by religion people of the world.

Peoples religions are not fairytales. Your statement is an insult to religious people and shows a total lack of respect for others. It is one thing to make an argument that there may or may not be a god, but like calling a black guy a ni..gr is an insult and a lack of respect for that person, the same goes for issuing insulting statements about religion. Religion is a very serious subject for most people and needs to be respected.

Again, as to evolution, since Catholics happen to believe in evolution, why do you make statements that they do not? Many Christians believe in evolution and see no conflict with their religion, at least the majority that understand their religion. You seem to be just trying to stir the pot and make trouble where there is none. Why else the continual spewing of insults about religious people? Maybe you have some problems of your own to resolve?

Correction, in the catholic faith it is called Limbo. Purgatory is for a small time sinner, Hell is for the big time sinner and Limbo is for people, like a baby who cannot sin and die unbaptized.

Yeah, or else they'll start rioting, and burning stuff, you know?

And whom, might I ask, assigned you to this "duty"?
I'm pretty sure I already know...;)


KT:D

What makes you think the religion represses people? To the contrary, religion enlightens and enriches many peoples lives.

You seem to be in need of conversion, son.

Snowman wrote:
Peoples religions are not fairytales. Your statement is an insult to religious people and shows a total lack of respect for others. It is one thing to make an argument that there may or may not be a god, but like calling a black guy a ni..gr is an insult and a lack of respect for that person, the same goes for issuing insulting statements about religion. Religion is a very serious subject for most people and needs to be respected.
Again, as to evolution, since Catholics happen to believe in evolution, why do you make statements that they do not? Many Christians believe in evolution and see no conflict with their religion, at least the majority that understand their religion. You seem to be just trying to stir the pot and make trouble where there is none. Why else the continual spewing of insults about religious people? Maybe you have some problems of your own to resolve?




Let me make myself perfectly clear. I do not want to insult anybody. If you are insulted because I do not accept your beliefs than that’s your own doing; so be it. I was taught to shoot and talk straight. This thread is full of people who want to show science is wrong and label the proponents as evil, god bashing, liberal, doomed to hell, etc. Why is that not considered insulting?
I have been accused of god bashing, just because I used one of the believer’s statements which declares he has a duty to inflict this nonsense on the rest of us, with the substitution of Christian with non-believer. This is insulting to you? Why would you not think the original statement insulting to me? If you want to believe something fine. If you want to believe something and promote it in a public forum, then I too have that ability. I do not want myths, fairytales, stories, urban legends, etc. (any nonsense based on non-testable, non-repeatable, non-peer reviewed) given out and spoken about as fact. All you would need to do is label these statements as what they really are, (i.e. opinions, personal interpretations and stories) and I would not have anything to say. After all, I love a good story. But if you (the religious collective) want to present these as facts, truth and proof; then I am insulted. You have not earned my respect.
If the subject was not religion (or politics) and someone was making statements about how he just knew and believed the moon was made of cheese, how much respect (not tolerance) would you give to his opinion? You have my tolerance. After all I’m on a sacred mission to spread the truth and to open people’s eyes to the dark oppression of religion. How and why would you expect me to stop?

Again, we have the example of:
Snowman wrote:
“Many Christians believe in evolution and see no conflict with their religion, at least the majority that understand (sic) their religion.”

I love this tripe; it’s as common as dirt. Here we have the same, egotistic “I am right, they are wrong” opinion that religion is full of. Every religious person I have ever met has the same “my interpretation is correct, yours is wrong” position. Every one of them. They can all point out that the ones who are bigoted, hate filled, gay bashing, doctor killing, anti –intellectual, Moslem haters, etc. etc. are all the misguided ones, not at all like the “correct” true believers.



PS. I have never made the statement that the official stance of the Catholic Church is not to accept evolution. And thanks for the attempt at psychology. I am at peace with the universe, and have no unresolved problems; I just don’t suffer fools gladly.

My mission to clear the muddled heads of the religious came from god. I thought you knew that stuff already!

sorry but no
it may enrich some
but most of them are useless like jim and tammy fay
far more people just are robbed by the church/religions
to support the few who refuse to do usefull work

and lets not forget the ones who do evil in the name of their belifes
from the book burners to the terrorests
they all belive a god is on their side

and enlightenment comes only when
a person rejects false gods
and their followers and stupid rules

Harsh, but true.


KT

Which god?



KT

Why, the one true god, of course!

My statement:


If you are going to quote or paraphrase me, I would appreciate if you do it truthfully. Let's compare our two statements word by phrase by phrase so that I'm not mis-quoted again.

I said...
You said...
You correctly identified me as a believer, and then promptly state that you never met a believer who didn't say that things that you said. Well you said them, not me. I don't need you to put garbage in my mouth. So if you want to talk about truth -- start with an honest quote.

BTW, I'm sure that if I were to ask you if all athiests are
and I could add to the list church burners and anti-semites -- I suggest that you would point out that those statements didn't apply to true logically minded athiests such as yourself. If you dis-agree with my suggestion, I'd be shocked.

Why should a believer's statements to that effect carry any less credence then a similar statement made by an Athiest?

I said...
You said...
My word: available
your word: inflict

The last time that I checked, participation on this thread and this forum is strictly voluntary. You are welcome not to participate in this discussion if it so offends you.

My words: people who want to learn about it (God's Word)
Your words: the rest of us.

Incorrect statements were made and questions asked about what Christians believe in regards to Creation and Evolution. As a Christian, I thought that I'd share what many actual Christians believe, as opposed to what non-Christians believe Christians believe. In my book this is telling the truth.

I understand that you feel the duty to stand up for your beliefs. So do I. If you're going make sweeping generalizations about people who you obviously know very little about (such as myself), the least that I can do is point out where I differ from your generalization.

Oh yeah, like Mao, Stalin and Hitler. Three of the most efficient killers of all time. Oh, but wait --

They were all avowed athiests.

oops!
:rolleyes:

so you're saying the ones who kill in the name of religion aren't efficient? :p

and are you so sure about Hitler?

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html

Ok, for the sake of discussion I'll even grant you Hitler. According to National Geographic's recent article on Genocide (January 2006 issue)

Mao: 30,000K people
Stalin: 20,000K people
---------------------------
Total: ~50,000K people

Everyone else in the 20th Century:
........ ~50,000K people

And that includes the Japanese in WWII with 10M and Hitler with 11.4M people

I am agreeing with nostatic on this one, Hitler was a christian.....along with what was pointed out above many history texts back this up.

Clapton?

but what's your point? Bad people do bad things. Religion or the absence thereof doesn't really seem to be much of an indicator.

You've got to be kidding me!!

He was pagan all the way.
everything he did was 180 degrees opposite from what Christ did.

Jusy because a person or "christian" religion says they are christian certainly does not actually make them such.

True christians imitate Jesus because they:

1. Do not kill.
2. Are not political- keep seperate from the world.
3. Preach God's kingdom as the solution to man's problems.
4. Sanctify God's name...Jehovah.
5. Have respect for God's word. Live by it.
6. Have love for neighbor.

So how did Hitler fit this description?

In fact WHO does? ( not a trick question );)


KT

...and of course, I have *ALL* the scriptures to back up my statements.


KT

Earlier, the suggestion had been made the Christians are book burners and killers. The facts don't support that statement. They do support (as do I) your conclusion that Christians (including people who claim to be in spite of their actions being blatently anti-Christian) as a group are no better or worse then the population at large. But then the Christian Creeds all acknowledge that Christians confess themselves to be failures at following Jesus's example in spite of our greater or lesser efforts.

BTW, unfortunately good people also sometimes do bad things, and bad people sometimes do good things. So to judge a group of people buy a select group of actions is not a particularly valid way to draw conclusions. From a scientific and statistical perspective it violates the concept of random sampling, and as a result will often show more about the bias of the sampler then the make-up of the sample.

One famous person said this thing very well, and no, it does not matter who said it, it just makes perfect sense.

Just read it, think about it, realize it.

"It took me a long time to realize that the miracles in the bible were just reflections of the peoples beliefs at that time in the history".

Did you get it? If you did, good.
If not, just continue believing in Santa Jesus.

...Just point out ONE thing that proves that there is a god outside humans brain.

I can see why RPKESQ calls religion a fairytale. That is my opinion as well. Here are three reasons why I feel this way.

First, all you really have to go on is word of mouth. The gospels were written some years or decades after the fact, and then they were copied by scribe after scribe, and then translation after translation. Who knows what was misunderstood, copied wrong, or deliberately changed. For example, there is an ancient Hebrew word for “father” that does not have the literal meaning that our word does. It’s more of a “mentor” type person. Perhaps that’s what Jesus meant when he said god is my father. We just don’t know. Yes, there are some historical truths in the bible. That’s about the only hard evidence there is. I say so what, there are historical truths in Star Trek as well.

Second, the whole story is full of reasonable doubt. Perhaps Jesus was just unconscious and didn’t die on the cross. There is a line in the Koran that said it wasn’t Jesus that got crucified. Perhaps it was some other guy. Perhaps he walked on ice, or a mirage, instead of water. And I don’t even need to say what reasonable doubt applies to the virgin birth. What happened there is so obvious I’m flabbergasted that the story has survived all these years. I guess some people are just gullible for that kind of thing.

Third, the story is not even logically consistent with itself. Jesus died for your sins, but wait, he’s still alive! God gave his only son, but wait, god has his only son! And then the whole free will thing: god knows who the chosen ones are, yet you are supposed to have free will to choose.

Fairytale might not be the best word to describe this, but it comes pretty close.

I have a theory why religion exists. I’ve posted it before. It meets normal, human psychological needs. But I won’t repeat that post here. I’ll save it for another post or thread.

KT

read the history books and read Hitler's own words...I can back up my statements as well...

who said this?

“My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago — a civilization which was driven to its ruin through this same Jewish people.

wait for it


that is right it was Hitler

as for professing those claims above;

True christians imitate Jesus because they:

1. Do not kill.
2. Are not political- keep seperate from the world.
3. Preach God's kingdom as the solution to man's problems.
4. Sanctify God's name...Jehovah.
5. Have respect for God's word. Live by it.
6. Have love for neighbor.


no one fits these, not even modern day christians...

Right, It's always easy to talk a good game, or to try to distance yourself from the "others" who are not the same kind of christians that you are. But the results are there for all to see. In the last 1000 years over 800 million dead due to religious wars. In a micro veiw you can always find some good deed to make a religion seem great. But in a macro view, religion's results show it for what it is; a breeding ground for ignorance, hatred and bigotry. History is full of it. Stop spreading the evil of religion.

Hitler's actions, deeds, will, goals, efforts and words proved without any doubt that he was no Christian.
Hate is what he preached.

To make that claim is ridiculous and disgusting. :mad:

Hitler tried to murder Jehovah's Witnesses in the camps, too.
They were some of the first put in. "Purple Triangle", if you don't believe me.

His goal to exterminate was cut short and now over 165,000 of Jehovah's Witnesses are preaching in Germany today.


KT

KT

"Hitler's actions, deeds, will, goals, efforts and words proved without any doubt that he was no Christian.
Hate is what he preached."

in your eyes and in your opinion that may be so, however, are you going to ignore what is being preached today and what is happening under your watch?

Ridiculous and digusting as it is, it is the truth. You can ignore it all you like and continue to put your head in the sand. Nothing is going show you that religion and religious people have caused the majority of this worlds genocides and wars.

So, Richard, you are saying that there isn't ONE religion today that is free from your claim?
There isn't ONE that kept free from fighting in any of the wars of the 20th century and as a result didn't kill their brothers in the faith?

Is that your final answer?


KT

James, you are missing my point, I believe.

Just because someone say your Porsche is blue, doesn't make it red.

People can say what they think they are, their actions, it's their fruitage that will prove what they are.

15_“Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16_By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17_Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18_a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19_Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20_Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].

Matthew 7:15-20


KT

KT,

Good bible verse but, people even today are using that very book to be "false profits" and such. What I am saying is that religious people have and continue to justify their actions in the name of religion and god, and well this has been going on for quite sometime. What gets me is you can quote this verse and give a few basic tenets of what chritianity is;

1. Do not kill.
2. Are not political- keep seperate from the world.
3. Preach God's kingdom as the solution to man's problems.
4. Sanctify God's name...Jehovah.
5. Have respect for God's word. Live by it.
6. Have love for neighbor.

and yet I see these are broken every day by the professed leaders of the church. When questioned about these issues we get the same excuses. these range from out right lies to man is just an imperfect being to well that was customary at the time. Now you can blame this on man being "sinful" and or say that man is imperfect..but you can not hide from the facts religion has done more "evil" to this world than anything else.

psalms 137:9

How blessed will be the one who grabs your babies and smashes them on a rock!

I don't think that any wars have been started in the name of Buddhism.

That being said, there are some whacko sects of every faith. The Tokyo nerve gas attacks were done by a group that claimed to be Buddhist.

Interesting post!! I was born and raised Catholic and have attended Catholic school since preschool and I am currently at a Catholic college. I believe some of the Catholic teachings, however, the teachings of the bible were written to teach a lesson. They are not necessarily actual events that took place. My point is that evolution is actually provable through scientific testing but the teachings in the bible are not able to be proven today. I don't want to catch flack from hard-core church-goers (because I do attend church myself) but many of the religious teachings are only meant to teach a lesson and not to prove what happend in history.

I respect that view, but what about all the Christians that think the bible is 100% literal, factual in every regard?

voters have rejected 3 of 4 anti-evolution board members
up for election yesterday

Evolution Forces Win Kansas Ballot

TOPEKA, Kansas, Aug. 2, 2006

(CBS) Kansas voters have expressed their displeasure at their state Board of Education's move to play down the instruction of evolution.

Voters chose three candidates who promised to back science standards with a greater emphasis on evolution.

Two incumbents and another candidate who support the state's retreat from teaching evolution were defeated in Republican primaries Tuesday. The lone incumbent survivor, Steve Abrams, helped write the standards.

link http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/08/01/backtoschool/main220664.shtml