Sailboats

[jdlowery]

I've been toying with the idea of owning a powered sailboat. I live in CA so I would be able to sail pretty much all year round. I have no sailing experience so I would need to take some classes. I figured there must be a few on this list that have or had sailboats so I'll start by bombarding you with some questions.
1) Who are some of the manufacturers I should compare for quality and price?
2) Ideally, the boat would be used for weekend excursions but my dream (retirement, long ways off) would be to sail to farther destinations (Hawaii, Cancun, etc...); what is the minimum size that would accomplish those goals?
3) Is boat ownership just a large money pit?

Any comments and suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks,

[Porsche-O-Phile]

1. I've been passively looking for a while. Catalina seems to make a good introductory-type sailboat that you can grow into. I'm sure some others with more experience here will chime in too. . .

2. Personally I'd say no smaller than 40', but opinions may vary. You could probably do it on a smaller boat if you were very careful and put a lot of thought & planning into it. People have before. . .

3. Yes and no. . . I'm actually looking at one since it's virtually impossible to get into traditional housing here in SoCal (either condo or house). If you do it correctly and the boat is properly equipped (stateroom & head, certain berthing & live-aboard requirements) you can actually qualify for a homeowner's tax deduction, which would go a long way to helping us save for a "traditional" home. Call me nuts, but it just might actually be a wise investment from that point of view - on top of being damn fun, a getaway and a non-depreciating asset (depending on the type/year/model you get).

I personally LOVE sailboats. I have a decent amount of experience from when I was younger, but it was all on much smaller one-and-two person single-mast craft.

You can get a "decent" 28' or 32' boat for $8k-$15k but the slip fees will be what kills you. I'm checking now but there are prohibitive wait lists at most of the marinas around here and the rates are highly variable. . . If you can work that obstacle out, perhaps by buying boat & slip rights combined, you could do pretty well.

I suspect to have more information in the next 4-6 months. If the housing market doesn't seriously start correcting in that time, I'll probably seriously pull the trigger on this as a "Plan B".

[efhughes3]

I've had a number of boats from 14' to 37', and have crewed extensively on a Swan 57. It would be hard to go wrong with a Catalina 30 or similar to knock around on with some comfort. While people have sailed boats less than 20' around the world, that isn't the boat I'd do it in.

Go with something affordable and try it for a while, you may decide you don't want to venture outside the bay. On the other hand, if you go into it head over heels, you'll have plenty of time to decide what boats you like and don't like, and what is important to you on a boat. Then make the big decision.

Yes, they are holes in the water in which to pour money. Boats are referenced in the saying "if it flies, floats or F@#ks, it's cheaper to rent."

[charlesbahn]

Oh Boy, something I know something about. First, the cost of a boat is only the beginning- just like a Porsche. The upkeep is $$$ even if you do it yourself. First, you have to decide if you really like sailing. Especially important is your SO. Take courses, hang out at the marina, ask ?'s and get invited on other's boats. Make sure you and your mate don't get sea sick, and don't get sick of each other in small places that can become stressful.

For your location and desires, I would think that something like an Alberg 30 would be a good choice. Older design but full keel and very seaworthy. Stiffer and slower than a Catalina 30, but in my opinion a more seaworthy design. A very good boat for SF where the winds blow pretty hard. I'm biased though, I sail an Alberg 37 (yawl).

A good boat to just day sail and learn in is a Flying Scott. Good performance and hard to turn over. But if you reallly want to learn to sail well, start small, in a harbor rat- a small sailing dingy like an Optimist. Very exciting and if you make even the slightest mistake you learn quickly because you go swimming.
Have fun, and Fair Winds.
Charles

[efhughes3]

I don't know Charles, I had a 30' Alberg yawl, and while being very stout, it wouldn't be a good boat to learn to sail in. IMO. Mine was very slow to respond to wind changes, and that's the reason I'd not like it for a beginner. Truthfully, SF Bay has every kind of wind you could imagine. I lived on my Hunter 33 there for 2 years, so I know it well. Even with the brisk breeze, there are dependable spots for a beginner to sail with consistent moderate breezes. Having said Catalina, a San Juan, an Ericson, a Cal, Columbia or any number of boat would serve.

[pwd72s]

$pend $2k or less on a nice dinghy first...learn the basics, without any motor. Then think bigger.

[charlesbahn]

A 30' is, in my opinion, generally too small for a yawl rig. The 30' sloop with marconi rig is better for this size boat. Still a heavy boat, but if you ultimately want to go to Hawaii or Cancun it's a good choice. Many go round the globe. Even in the Alberg 35' the sloop rig is better. For the Alberg 37' the yawl rig seems preferred, at least in terms of the numbers built. But it's not a beginner's boat.

I've not sailed SF Bay except once in a 5.5 meter in my racing days, and it was blowing pretty hard, so I don't have a lot of "local knowledge," I'd have to defer to Ed's experience.

[911skb]

Check out:
Latitude 38 Magazine

Great info for Bay area sailing. You could find a club or boat that offers introductory crewing lessons for reasonable cost. Great way to learn, have some fun and not be out a sizeable $ amount if you decide it's not for you.

I love it, would like to get back into it someday.

[nota]

to learn to sail offer to crew on boats

1) Who are some of the manufacturers I should compare for quality and price?
most builders have changed hands several times
so they change spec over time
just as some years 911s are better then others some sail boats have less then idea problems two main BIGGIES are balsa core decks that rot inside the core and hull pox a fiberglass flaw in some boats
pre 73 boats are thicker as F/G resin is made from and priced like oil
2) Ideally, the boat would be used for weekend excursions but my dream (retirement, long ways off) would be to sail to farther destinations (Hawaii, Cancun, etc...); what is the minimum size that would accomplish those goals?
start small and learn then move up in size
price is also based on size learn on the smaller cheaper boats
people have sailed long distances in very small boats

3) Is boat ownership just a large money pit?
can be if you want a/c and fancy stuff that just doesnot like saltwater
simple is allways cheaper
as is the ability to do the work yourself

we lived aboard a 24 ft sail boat at first
and anchored out to save on dock rent [free here in south fla]
currently have a 30 ft Contest sloop built in 68 built in holland

[charleskieffner]

having owned boats and been in the coast guard, i can not find one reason to own a sail bote. hi-maint, tend to crash into things, tend to flip alot during regattas, captain is always yelling, everybody has to work real hard, and that boom vang thing just bugs me. lots of money and no relaxation. buy a 36ft FORMULA with twin 525 fuel injected motors. go when you want, stop when you want, turn when you want, and no body yelling at you. oh yea if you buy a blow bote, get the one with lots of teak, that will assure you that all your time is used up in maint in dock and you wont be cutting off us real boaters! LOL!

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Ahh, the inevitable bickering between power boat guys and sail boat guys - kind of like air cooled/water cooled. . . Okay then, here you go: "Real boats have sails. Tphhht."

Power boats are fun but about 3x as expensive as sail types on the initial purchase, insurance is a lot more expensive and the operating costs will kill you. A sailboat costs exactly zero dollars to operate when you have all the sails, ropes, rigging and hardware up to snuff (they should be anyway). With the price of oil and gas going out of sight though, I am seeing a LOT of power boats coming on the market and prices have softened a little. . . You still can get 2-1/2 to 3x your amount of boat for the same $$$ by going with a sailing craft though. Not to mention it's more enjoyable, IMO.

[charleskieffner]

actually i threw that jibe in there for giggles. have actually had quite abit of fun pulling blow botes back over onto their keel. fixed and retractable! big and small, expensive and inexpensive. also got to see what lightning does to main masts! why is it blowbotes go out on windy stormy days when all others are heading back to port?

i really have had fun on blowbotes when i didnt have to do anything. other than that it was alot of work to enjoy peace and quiet. but yes powerboats will be going for a dime a dozen here very soon if gas goes up higher. and there is nothing worse than a powerboter who doesnt yield right of way to a sailing vessel big or small.

but owning any bote is spendy power or sail. no different than a p-car, except either can sink. and that sucks big time(almost happened to me, due to marinas faulty install of clamshell fitting thru-hull- failed to use sealant-we used bubble gum-water was up to valve covers-26ft cruiser!). best fun i had with mine was left at lake in dry storage. call up marina, told them when i was gonna be there. they would fill fuel and water, and it would be in water, waiting for me to heave ice chest and go. on sunday would radio marina, pull up to launch and they would help get it on trailer. that was fun and painless. salt water adds its own little twists to things, unlike fresh. 2 best lakes we have gone to are tahoe and powell.

but my first suggestion so your not a statistic, take a USCG course and join a USCG AUX FLOTILLA. more fun than a barrel of monkees. great people and very very very helpful. get a CME courtesy marine examination and make a hell of alot of friends in the process, and you know your bote is safe.

also if you are in the ocean be very very aware of post 9/11-uss cole rules. 500 yard exclusion zone around ANY military vessel. they will not ask questions.............they will shoot! they MEAN IT BIG TIME!

[Seahawk]

I know the sailboat in the below link doesn't meet the Hawaii requirement, but I've been looking at it...a friend of mine owns one and it is a joy. The wind here on the Chesapeake is mecurial in the summer. It is really nice to purge the ballast and run home on the 50hp outboard at 20 kts

The purists may howl, but it is a great way to learn.

http://www.macgregor26.com/

[RoninLB]

Q. Most boat owners name their boats. What is the most popular boat name requested?

A. Obsession

[TyFenn]

I happened across a Catalina 27 a while back. All I had to do was pay the back slip fees and it was mine. $900 - Boom, I'll take it.

Fast forward a few months, man that thing is a TON of work. Slip fees are basically a new car payment (mid $300s). Have I mentioned it 's a TON of work yet? A TON of work.

I like boats, don't love them and that may be the problem. I think you have to LOVE sailing/boating for it to be worthwhile, in my opinion. Needless to say, I'm looking forward to the second most enjoyable day of boating, as Wayne said, when I sell it.

However, the girls love the boat so maybe it equals out - hahaha.

Edit: the name of my boat is 'the BAD ASSet'

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by TyFenn


However, the girls love the boat so maybe it equals out - hahaha.

around here a sailboat is a chick magnet much more so that a motor boat. I even knew a guy whose primary purpose of the sailboat was pussy.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Yep. Have to agree. A powerboat draws the same crowd that a Ferrari F40 will - it'll turn into a chest-beating testosterone-laden sausage fest. A sailboat will attract the ladies - no doubt about it.

[deathpunk dan]

My father sold his 75 911S and 91 KTM 250 EXC in the mid 90s and bought a Catalina 25, then a 30, and now a late model Catalina 34.

He is obsessed.

They sail all over new england, and often down to long island as well.

I plan on buying him a used Boxster when he turns 60 in 5 years...I can't let the man never have another p car!

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
The happiest two days of your life are the day that you buy your boat, and the day that you sell your boat.

-Wayne

Not true. I miss sailing terribly. But physical limitations told us it was time to give the boat to our daughter. I won't give our daughter the 911...but I'd miss not driving it less than I miss the feeling of sailing. Hell, I haven't driven the car in weeks. Just don't have the desire to do so. Damn! I do truly miss the feel of sailing...

[charleskieffner]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Not true. I miss sailing terribly. But physical limitations told us it was time to give the boat to our daughter. I won't give our daughter the 911...but I'd miss not driving it less than I miss the feeling of sailing. Hell, I haven't driven the car in weeks. Just don't have the desire to do so. Damn! I do truly miss the feel of sailing...

i agree. selling my last bote and watching it be trailered off into sunset by someone else was heartbreaking to say the least. i have learned my lessons on how to maintain a boat. leave it in a slip fresh or salt........and you get to deal with the hull. buy boat with lots of plastic........you'll end up replacing it. buy boat with lots of TEAK, and you will never get out of your slip, due to maint. not work on boat yourself and your opening up a can of worms. by joining the coast guard aux. flotilla, i gained a never ending cadre of people that loved working on boats for steak and beer. learned about some components i never would have tackled.

by putting bote on trailer and leaving in dry storage, i avoided all the hull headaches. avoided storm damage from other boats getting loose, avoided sinking the one time due to thru-hull leaking, and avoided any theft. the only drawback to leaving on trailer is if you are up at powell and leave it outside during winter. you must drain engine block, drives and water tank and toilet to avoid freeze problems.

twice a year i would either bring bote home and wax or wax at dry storage, dump engine oil and drive oil. put new impellar in and lube gimbal. other than that, i drove it alot! one year we put over 225 hrs run time on it. average boater uses boat 25 hours per year.