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It was a good 10-12 days before this story of 'dropping leaflets on neighborhoods' surfaced. I would like to see some independent corroboration that is actually happening. The other side is pumping out propaganda, as well. At least one child's corpse was paraded around by a "rescue worker" for -- what appears to be -- 4 hours. There are 5 or 6 different photos of the dead child circulating various news services. "The first casualty when war comes is truth". Hiram W Johnson |
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Because we played a major role in creating the 'radical Islamists' and arming them. We then abandoned them and supported governments that suppressed them or attacked governments that sheltered them. The one tactic we haven't tried is leaving them alone. |
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I am a simple person, Kill all the bastards before they kill you, that simple.
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No reason for the Israelis to invite a "true test of courage" by grounding their planes. It is a war, not a sporting contest.
As I've posted before, I'm not so interested in the morality of the war in Lebanon. That way lies endless, unresolvable debate. I'm more interested in the practicality. Are the Israelis doing what they need to do achieve their goals? Now that I see Israel sending 10,000 troops into Lebanon, I think they are moving in the right (practical) direction. As for Hezbollah, they seem very practical. AFAIK they are doing exactly what they need to do to achieve their goals. |
Terrorists couldn't exist without population support or apathy.
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Plus fear
You think the crips exist because of population support or apathy? |
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The Hezbollah, OTOH, besides being a political party w/ an armed militia are the biggest provider of social services in southern Lebanon such as schools, clinics, hospitals, etc. and they are extremely popular in their country. Unfortunately, the current conflict has bolstered this considerably. |
" Terrorists couldn't exist without population support or apathy."
"Or oppression" "Plus fear. You think the crips exist because of population support or apathy?" You have no level of understanding to comment. Emotional responses are great and may you love all the people around you. ..but leave me out of it. |
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I think you got it all wrong Tim. Denis has more than opinions. He's a textbook example of white guilt. Pick an issue and he'll follow the profile 100%. The more intense the issue the bigger the cage he's in. Hey, different strokes for different folks. that said, I believe he's a good friend. |
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Emotional responses? Sociological studies were part of my formal education. Nothing emotional about my response. And I beg to differ about my "level of understanding." What you guys describe about the Muslim people is some species that is not human. |
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that's great info.. I just called the White House. here you go. "Our administration takes these matters seriously and your opinion was heard loud and clear here in Washington. You'll be pleased to learn that, thanks to the concerns of citizens like yourself, we are creating a new division of the Terrorist Retraining Program, to be called the "Liberals Accept Responsibility for Killers" program, or LARK for short. In accordance with the guidelines of this new program, we have decided to place one terrorist under your personal care. Your personal detainee has been selected and scheduled for transportation under heavily armed guard to your residence next Monday. Ali Mohammed Ahmed bin Mahmud (you can just call him Ahmed) is to be cared for pursuant to the standards you personally infered to in your PP OT reply of complaint. It will likely be necessary for you to hire some assistant caretakers. We will conduct weekly inspections to ensure that your standards of care for Ahmed are commensurate with those you so strongly alluded to in your reply. Although Ahmed is a sociopath and extremely violent, we hope that your "level of understanding will help. Your adopted terrorist is extremely proficient in hand-to-hand combat and can extinguish human life with such simple items as a pencil or nail clippers. We advise that you do not ask him to demonstrate these skills at your next yoga group. He is also expert at making a wide variety of explosive devices from common household products, so you may wish to keep those items locked up, unless (in your opinion) this might offend him. Ahmed will not wish to interact with you or your daughters (except sexually), since he views females as a subhuman form of property. This is a particularly sensitive subject for him and he has been known to show violent tendencies around women who fail to comply with the new dress code that he will recommend as more appropriate attire. I'm sure you will come to enjoy the anonymity offered by the burka -- over time. Just remember that it is all part of "respecting his culture and his religious beliefs" -- wasn't that how you would put it? We truly appreciate it when folks like you keep us informed. You take good care of Ahmed - and remember..we'll be watching. Good luck! Cordially, your friend, Don Rumsfeld |
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The first mentioned that Olmert 'announced' to the Lebanese that he was attacking Hezbollah. Meaning what? He stated it on Israeli TV? Radio? What did it mean? Hezbollah is in a region, not in 'neighborhoods.' The inference is that the entire region where Hezbollah is operating would have to be evacuated. Not realistic, practical and certainly not reasonable. Same with the leaflets supposedly dropped before bombing. Read what it says. Israel does not know where Hezbollah is, specifically. Maybe local Lebanese do -- maybe not. Again, it's a general evacuation demand. Neither the broadcast nor the leaflets are useful instructions. That's why civilian causalties are estimated at such a high percentage. The whole idea of "surgical strikes" is some kind of comic book fantasy. If a bomb falls in your neighborhood, targeting people who are indistinguishable from you, except for their ideas, lots of innocent people are going to die. The Arab world was not on Hezbollah's side in general until after about a week of Israeli bombing of civilians, tourists, etc. Then opinion shifted. |
For anyone who thinks the situation is as simple as the PR machines would have you believe, here's something that will challenge everything you "know" if you actually read what it says and implies:
http://tinyurl.com/jb3y4 (for those averse to clicking or doing any kind of research, this is from a reserve IDF officer talking about working with Arabs and specifically the Israel-Hezbollah connection.) |
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If you want to know how bad this situation may become, take a look at this ABC News story. Here is another way of looking at this. Imagine _____ (you fill in the name), the worst possible extreme right winged religious leader in the US becomes President for 20 years. That is exactly what we have with the radical Muslims. They are accountable to no one and they will find a way to exert their will. And to be clear, their will is "convert" or "die." |
Tech, simple question. Who would you rather see come out on top in this "fight", A: Hezbollah or B: Israel? AFTER answering the simple A or B question, THEN feel free to dance all around and make fun of the simple question.
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I have a question for anyone on the right: Quickly, w/o googling for 15 minutes, which type of muslims are the Hezbollah? And which type are the overwhelming majority of muslims in the world? Which group does not even consider the other to be "real muslims"? This would be a start to having a basic, 6th grade level understanding of the situation in terms of who is whose ally and why. |
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Radical Muslim leaders had failed everywhere except Afghanistan until 9/11/01, when they suddenly looked like the winning team to the disaffected Muslim youth. That permanent 'chip on the shoulder' of young Muslim men suddenly was removed by radical Islam. Yes, radical Islam is strong -- much stronger now than before the US helped give it power by using it as a tool to fight the Soviets. And stonger still since 9/11. But radical Islam is not powerful enough to threaten the US in any meaningful way. Its threat to the US is way overblown for political reasons. For the most part, its followers are incapable of operating outside their own villages or sects because of a near-total lack of education. There is a BBC documentary never shown in the US -- and probably never to be broadcast here -- but it can be seen on Google video. It's called "The Power of Nightmares" and it is an eye-opening story of, among other things, the birth of radical Islam. I recommend watching part 1 for background. |
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...but you don't need to be a majority to cause a problem. Quote:
Long before there was Afghanistan, there was Iran. And the radicals have managed to be quite successful there for some time. The current Iranian Pres was part of that original radical movement. Hez is completely their tool, in part to breed more radicalism. That is all. |
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Thanks for the The Power of Nightmares heads up. I will try to watch it ASAP and see how it compares to Ghost Wars history. |
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While Iran seems "radical" to us, there is a whole other mindsel among true radical Muslims. And, BTW, the Israeli attacks are helping forge alliances between Sunni and Shia that will spell even more trouble for the region. |
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It was not enforced at sword point. They used guns. Bottomline: They are quite radical and are known to fund even more radical organizations such as Hez. Making excuses for them doesn't cut it. Now really, that is all I have time for. |
What is the moral to this story? It sounds like some think we should appease all who wish us harm and cave into any of their demands (wouldn't want to upset these peace loving folk anymore right?).
Palestinians want Irael... The US should should assist those poor Hamas folks with another holocaust. Iraq wants to conquer Kuwait..... The US should have assisted the Iraqies instead of stopping them. Iraq wants to continue non compliance with the UN's resolutions..... The US should have turned the other cheek. Iran wants to build nukes so they can turn Israel and maybe someday some US cities into rubble..... The US should provide them with the materials to do so. A bunch of nutjobs training in Afganistan want to blow up some more buildings in the US...... The US should build some twin towers for them so that they can do it again. After all what is a few thousand US deaths here and there in the grand scheme of things. If we do all of the above, maybe we will not run the risk of "offending" these b@stards and then if we beg real nice like and keep allowing them to go to school in our country, marry our women and even live here, they will be content (as long as we as Americans do not set foot on THEIR soil). :rolleyes: |
Aww...
You're just and old, crankey bastard now... |
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So it's been suggested that Iran is run on a day-to-day basis the same way Afghanistan was under the Taliban... that's not the information I have. I would like to see some independent source for this. BTW, Sharia law is understood to be the basis for the Iraqi constitution. But I don't believe they plan to stone women for walking unescorted on the street as happened in Afhanistan... at least I hope not. |
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Woman sentenced to Stoning: http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7843 But apparently they have seen the light and decided not to stone for the moment...they will hang instead. Stoning repeal: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2609597.stm Hanging instituted: http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=893 or maybe they will be whipped: http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=634 Numerous other articles about oppression of women in Iran: http://www.wfafi.org/e-zan.htm |
Even the Brits have figured out that sooner or later, you've gotta talk with folks.
We must rethink the War on Terror - Blair By Rosemary Bennett in Los Angeles and David Charter FIVE years into the War on Terror, Tony Blair called yesterday for a “complete renaissance of our strategy” to defeat militant Islam. Speaking in Los Angeles, the Prime Minister admitted that the use of force alone had alienated Muslim opinion, and said that there was now an “arc of extremism” stretching across the Middle East and beyond. He called for an “alliance of moderation” that would combat terrorism using values as much as military might. On a day when four British soldiers were killed by insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Prime Minister’s words were an apparent admission that the use of military force alone had failed. ----------full article---------- http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2295604,00.html#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=World |
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Thanks for these links. It appears as if Iran is currently run just about the way the Taliban ran Afghanistan. So I have to amend my statment: no ME country other than Iran is run by radical Muslims. As for my contention that Iran is more fundamentalist now than before 9/11, I'm happy to see any links that prove or disprove that. |
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That was what the "progressives" of the late 19th and early 20th century were all about. Bringing various "progressive" ideologies to "backward" countries for their own good, either with their cooperation or with killing them until they cooperated, i.e. the Philipines in the case of the US government. It killed over 200,000 filipinos with a loss of about 5000 US servicemen, wiping out entire villages Liddice style, only more of them. Interventionism was funded by the alleged change in the taxing power of the US government fostered by the 16th Amendment, and with voting for these "improvements" in government authority and power eased by the 17th Amendment. Until we erase at least those two Amendments Americans will have a hard time bringing the federal government back under control. |
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Thanks for posting your true feelings. *Yes, arabs are Semites like the Sephardic Jews. |
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There's your practicality. Pretty impractical in execution, just like Snowman's ideas. |
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Bombing doesn't produce the results you apparently think it does, and never has. |
Techweenie,
Ok, I just finished watching Parts I and II. Here are some quick “hip shots” before I watch Part III later tonight. 1.) This seems more like a veiled attack on the American Right than an explaination of how we got to today with respect to radical Islam. 2.) Kuta came to loath America for its lack of moral values, as he defined them. 3.) A few choice quotes from various Muslims: a.) “Freedom will drag our county to the bottom.” b,) “We are the correct Muslims.” c.) “Kill our way to perfection.” 4.) These radicals see democracy as corrupt. The one thing this helped me understand is why Muslims are killing Muslims in Iraq: Because they have not risen up and over thorough the government therefore they are corrupt and are to be killed. The documentary does not go into, at all, the empowering effect Afghanistan had on OBL. The documentary completely ignored that America’s involvement in Afghanistan was completely William Cassey’s private war. So, what is this series makes you think we can have an Oprah chat session with these people and come away alive? |
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