Medical insurance

cashflyer · 07-31-2006, 12:04 PM

My wife and I have been insured through her employers group plan... until their last rate increase, when we decided that we would rather take our chances without. (The increase made our monthly premium about half of her entire net pay)

I am self employed, so there is no group plan at my place.

So, does anyone here have any good advice on insurance companies? Which are the angels? Which is the devil? etc.

Pros/cons of HSA vs traditional insurance...?

Thanks.

Rot 911 · 07-31-2006, 12:14 PM

I can't imagine you are going to find much in the way of health insurance cheaper than an employer health plan unless you get just catastrophic.

cashflyer · 07-31-2006, 12:27 PM

I've had house payments that were cheaper.

Similar coverage for us with my former employer was about half as expensive. I believe it is really just a problem with her employers benefit administrator.

If I can't do better, I'll just remain one of the 45 million uninsured Americans and take my chances.

Tobra · Tobra's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Kurt V
I can't imagine you are going to find much in the way of health insurance cheaper than an employer health plan unless you get just catastrophic.

You will never find insurance as "reasonably" as you can get through your employer, if you can get a policy for less than highway robbery rates as an individual

Health insurance companies are all the Devil, there are no angels, these are profit driven companies

legion · 07-31-2006, 12:34 PM

For you, assuming you and your wife are reasonably healthy, it might just be cheaper to remain uninsured.

Pay as you go. Most doctors/hospitals charge lower rates to the uninsured.

Get a "catastrophic" policy. My wife had one for a brief period that she was uninsured before we got married. It only covered something like medical bills beyond $20k for a year.

bryanthompson · bryanthompson's Garage

Take a look at the NASE's medical insurance plans. I use it and it's been great. Pretty cheap for me, too... 0 deductable, vision, dental, prescription coverage, and $140/month. The limits are decent also. Worth looking at for us self-employed folks, anyway.

Tobra · Tobra's Garage

HSA is your money and it will just become more money if you don't tap into it. If it were just my ridiculously healthy ass involved it is the way I would go, sickly wife though, so it does not make sense.

For me, if I had put the premiums in the bank instead of the insurance company's pocket over the last 20 years, I would be very wealthy right about now.

snowman · 07-31-2006, 01:45 PM

Many professions have organizations that offer members group insurance. THey are not inexpensive at about $400 per person per month. But thats the going rate for insurance.

I would suggest a policy with high deductables. You can almost always afford to pay out $1K TO $10K if you really have to. Get a policy with as high as a deductable you feel you can live with.

As to being healthy, good luck. One day you could wake up with a big problem, no warning. No insurance, say goodby to the Porsche.

WolfeMacleod · 07-31-2006, 01:48 PM

My wife's parents medical insurance is so high through her mother's employer, that they frequently have to write the employer a check to cover the insurance costs...
meaning..her paychecks are frequently in the negative dollars.

Jims5543 · 01:59 PM

I currently have a MSA and I am in the process of getting rid of it. The premium just went up to $750 a month for my family of 4 with a $5,000 deductable. (edit) My MSA has a balance of 10K right now. Its a tax deduction and it has worked well, until the premium started to shoot up. I am thinking of getting a different one I guess its called an HSA now.

I found another policy (I do not have the mane here at work but can get it) It will have a $2500 per person deductable and cost me about $300 a month for a family of four. I do not care about the day to day BS I am worried about something major happening. I'll deal with the little stuff in exchange for a lower premium.

Group insurance exists only for those who have existing conditions and cannot get insured. When they are in a group the insurance company HAS to insure them. If they HAVE to insure them they simply triple the rate for everyone so they do not expose themselves any more than they have to.

If you shop enough you can find a nice policy that is affordable. I suggest finding a broker to help you. Unless you have lots of time and are good at shoppping this stuff then you will probably find a good one yourself.

turbo6bar · 07-31-2006, 02:03 PM

HSA is a great way to go if you can swing the high deductible. A benefit of many HSAs is you can choose any provider versus the stupid preferred provider BS. Also, a lot of services are included under HSA. If you want LASIK, forget payment via conventional insurance, but you can use your tax-deductible insurance deductible to pay for LASIK. At the end of the year, the funds are yours and rollover to the next. At the same time, funds earn interest and that interest is tax-deferred. It's similiar to and IRA, except you can make withdrawals to pay for health expenses.

Sonic dB · Sonic dB's Garage

Try www.ehealthinsurance.com

Register your small business, tell them what you want and it spits out many reasonably priced options to choose from (BC/BS, Aetna etc.) They lady from there called me to follow up too.

john70t · 07-31-2006, 04:41 PM

Isn't healthy insurance to employees(you/wife/gf) deductable?

Company vehicle? Home office? Defending tax attorney?
Welcome to everyone-cheating-to-get-by world. Those that don't get robbed even more. And to think it just snuck up on us just like a freight train. System done broke itself.

cashflyer · 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john70t
Isn't healthy insurance to employees(you/wife/gf) deductable?

Yes, but....
I'm not saying you have this problem, but a lot of people I talk to seem to have some misunderstanding of what a deduction is.

A deduction doesn't mean you didn't spend the money, or that you get the money back. It means that you don't pay taxes on the money you spent. And even then, you can only itemize that deduction if it comes up to more than something like 7.5% of your income.

Let's say I make 100k per year. And that year I was healthy and only paid in premiums - no medical expenses. My premiums amount to $4800. 4800<7500, so no deduction.

(If my numbers are wrong, forgive me. My accountant handles that crap.)

Anyway, in looking for insurance I found some bad reviews of UICI/Mega Life and Health/NASE. There seems to be several state attorneys-general looking into them, and even some class action suits.

And speaking of accountants, mine advised me to research and consider an HSA. The premiums on the HDHP part can be paid by the company as a business expense, making it an "instant deduction" and the amount I contribute to the saving part is tax deferred. Anyone else here who is self employed may want to run that by their own accountant.

bryanthompson · bryanthompson's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by cashflyer
Anyway, in looking for insurance I found some bad reviews of UICI/Mega Life and Health/NASE.
http://www.selfemployedweb.com/nase-class-action.htm

whoa, i better investigate this a little more before I get too far into them

turbo6bar · 08-01-2006, 12:08 PM

There is no restriction on when you can itemize. You can itemize $3, if you desire, but when the total itemized dollars are less than your standard deduction, you're losing money.

john70t, life's a *****.

Jims5543 · 08-01-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john70t
Isn't healthy insurance to employees(you/wife/gf) deductable?

Company vehicle? Home office? Defending tax attorney?
Welcome to everyone-cheating-to-get-by world. Those that don't get robbed even more. And to think it just snuck up on us just like a freight train. System done broke itself.

I personally paid close to $50K 2 years ago in taxes and last year it was more like $40K. I get to write off a pittence for my health insurance. Plus I get to sit up all nigh worrying about keeping the place open and what my next move should be and what to do about Jonny quitting for $2 more an hour to go to the big firm and if I should buy that $26K piece of equipment or if I should take that job even though it might break us.

Insomnia is my friend. I spend too many nights staring at the ceiling running scenerios through my head over and over trying to decide what the best decisions are.

Do I drive a company truck? Hell yes!! Home office? Hell no!! I pay $2600 a month for my office space. I have yet to need a tax atty because my accountant makes sure we approach the tax thing conservatively, I fi I ever get audited I will get money back I guarantee that. I pay throug my butt in taxes and show all my income.

My little company cannot afford to give full benefits and it has cost me a couple of employees. It is VERY expensive to supply a group policy any of you that have it should not take it for granted its worth about $2 per hour or more on your paycheck.

I am now shopping to TRY to get them some sort of coverage but it is so damn expensive.

cashflyer · 08-01-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bryanthompson
whoa, i better investigate this a little more before I get too far into them

I pulled that link, as it was a class action suit related to improper stock transfers. However, it does show some of the internal connections that the company has.

Apparently, the National Association of the Self Employed (NASE) is nothing more than an recruitment tool for Mega Life and Heath. Also, since 1995, MEGA and the other main unit of UICI, Mid-West National Life Insurance Co., have been the subject of 14 investigations by state insurance officials, according to data provided by the National Association of Insurance Commissioners. One report says that they are being investigated by Alabama, Montana, California, Iowa and Colorado.

Business Week article
Outline of action by Alabama Department of Insurance
The UICI 10K file (pdf)
Ripoff Report website
LA Times report (pdf)

sammyg2 · 01:22 PM

$1000 deductable per year or higher.
I know it sounds high, but the premiums are really low for that type of plan. Most of the time you are paying crazy high premiums for insurance you don't need and don't use.
The only time you get financially hurt without insurance is when you have something really serious happen, then the $1000 plan would cover you.
Think about it, most of us probably have medical bills of around $500 per year. We pay many, many times that in premiums per year, sometimes per month!
If we decide to eat the first $1000 and only pay 1/2 of the regular premiums (or less) we are way ahead.

Either that or start taking sniper shots at all the malpractice lawyers out there that are helping to drive the cost of insurance so high, and all the politicians who are letting the illegal immigrants flow accross the border for free medical care.

Come to think of it, why buy insurance at all? Just pretend to be an illegal immigrant.

RANDY P · RANDY P's Garage

I'm in the same boat - self employed

There are different providers based on your specific state, but through my research I've gotten a good deal through:

www.ehealthinsurance.com - I checked them and against several local brokers and found them to be the best overall.

Just make sure that you get new coverage before the old one expires, otherwise they could hit you with a "preexisting conditon" clause, making them not liable to pay any bills on medication or anything else related to it for months.

rjp