Formula Vee... Formula P ??
 

I was looking over a Solo Vee yesterday (the autocross version of a Formula Vee) and evil ideas started forming. I know very, very little about the cars - but I know PPOT knows EVERYTHING.

The beatle was a rear engine car, but the VEE is a mid engine. The owner said that the transxle was simply "flipped". I assume he means that the ring gear was swapped from one side to the other.

I was wondering... Why not drop in a Porsche 6?? Seems like all you would need to do is lengthen the frame and trailing arms.

Yes? No?
Enlighten me!!

Formula Vee's can be had for relatively cheap prices, and I have a crashed 911 with a good 2.4 and 901. Is what I'm thinking about a viable project??


Also... How similar is the beatle tranny to the 901 or early 915? Can they be interchanged?

'Cause there's no way a crappy FV frame and transaxle could handle anything over a hundred horsepower or so. Heck, they're made for 45 HP!

BTW, a good, used, 10 year old FV roadracer still goes for over $10k. Bottom line is that the junk cars are cheap, but good ones are big bucks.

I ran one for one race back in the day before my Formula Ford and Formula Atlantic. To be honest, they are ancient tech crap. Just my 0.02!!!

I thought it would be fun to get an older forumla vee to use as a play-around track car, the primary advantage being I could tow it behind my VW bus.

If you're hard-core VW and don't mind the low tech and 45 HP, they probably are a fun low budget racer.

For $10k you can have a Lola 340 Forumla Ford:

http://static.racingjunk.com/1/ui/2/7/4716143054405.jpg

Now that sounds like fun! :D

Yes, I too am considering jumping into a formula something - either VW or Ford. With a Forumla Vee, I am sure that a 1.8 turbo or 2.0 VW powerplant can be made to work - as long as the chassis is upgraded as well. As for the Forumla Ford - a Zetec motor would work just fine...

-Z-man.

Super Vee is a whole different ballgame, and probably somewhere between Formula Vee and Ford in ownership/operating costs. Most I've seen seem noticably faster than the Formula Fords as well. Could just be the local drivers. Anyone have experience with them?

FWIW, vintage Formula Vee has a huge contingent up here. The guys running it are as laid back as racers come, and they sure seem to have a lot of fun for the dollar. Tight knit group, too.

Super Vee is a Formula Atlantic chassis (Ralt RT4 or RT5) with a VW engine in it (Golf?). They're pretty cheap to pick up, but weren't as fast as the Cosworth BDA or injected Toyota engines. Cheaper to run, though. Much, much faster than FV or FF, with wings front and back and downforce tunnels.

I once brought up the subject of Vintage Formula Vee with Cramer. (At a bar in Watkins Glenn, as I remember..) He likened it to "kissing your own sister" and just laughed. I never brought up the subject again.:(

I'm not hardcore anything. I do mind the 45hp.

I liked the idea of being able to pick up a Vee roller for around $2-3k. Then, using my in-gin-ooo-ity, welder, and hammer, maybe putting in some Porche Pow'r.

Cheap was kinda the idea behind the Vee.

Oh, well...

I am hardcore VW, and 45hp doesn't bug me (get it?) but the $10k+ admission price does :(

Thom, you can find Caldwell D13s out there for around $5k ready to race.

BTW, some of the big FV tuners - I forget the names, its been a long time - charge upwards of $10k for their 45 HP motors!

LOLOLOL!!! Even the Motormeister guys dig Formula Vees!

http://www.motormeister.com/suz/crew/lee_roy.html

Pics of D13: http://home.nc.rr.com/cavalino/

Formula Vees for sale: http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/formulavee.htm

Yeah, there's one here in Sacramento - I bought some stuff on ebay from him and he gave me a tour of his shop. The tricks he was willing to show me were downright amazing, I can only imagine what secrets he has up his sleeve.

I have two excellent bug-men in my area. Although it is a different form of racing, one of them is a former record holder for VW based drag racing. I'm sure he knows a few tricks.

If you want to see a few more ads, many under $10k, look here:
http://www.sracing.com/ForSale/forsale.htm

$6500
http://www.sracing.com/ForSale/burnette1.jpg

$9700
http://www.sracing.com/ForSale/harris1.jpg

$5000
http://www.sracing.com/ForSale/faford2.jpg

The Super Vee's I see running around the track up here have the air-cooled flat four. I believe they are in the 2,000 cc+ range. Most obvious is that they are dual port motors running twin Webers, and the fully independant rear suspensions (as opposed to swing axles on the Formula Vee's). These are not the in-line four water pumpers. I don't know all that much about them, but they do clean up on the Formula Fords pretty easily. They do sport front and rear wings, and appear to have much more liberal rules than Formula Vee. Any of you SCCA guys out there know what these are all about? They seem pretty damn fast for the money.

A friend of mine used to race Vee's years ago.
They rebuild their motors after every couple of races.
Most guys carry a spare with them.
They make 60 HP with a single port VW motor.

They run at 7000+ RPMS and can run Sears at a 1:51 !!

A true momentum car.
My friend said if you brake or lift, three cars will go by you!

We're supposed to rebuild his car from the ground up.
I want to a/x or DE the thing. He wants to renew his license and race it again.


KT

There was a local guy who managed to get a formula vee racer licensed for the road back in the 70s. He had done so in order to drive it to autocross events, but when he sold it the next owner used it on the street only. Quite a sight on the highway in smalltown New Brunswick. Last time I saw it (10 yrs ago or so) it had type 4 power and a little canvas top.

Here is the Tui Supernova. Click it for the ad which has a little history.
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/ot...51557941pa.jpg

Early super vees were air cooled bug motors.
Later versions had rabbit motors.
No cheap Super Vees any more.

FV's are 1200cc.
There is a group updating the FV's to "formula first" w/ 1600 motors, disc brakes, & FF size tires. Laps at about club ford times.

Any idea the best way to ship one from Alberta to the US east coast?

I have thought about calling a trucking company to see about rates on "half a van". I fugure the car plus all spares would take just under half of a 53 foot trailer....

At the Bay Bottom Crawl there was a Formula Ford with a Turbo added. It was insanely fast and the car to beat all weekend long. Gapping everyone else be over 2 seconds.

I began to ponder an older Star Mazda with the non-turbo motor pulled and a Turbo one in its place. Maybe tuned for about 275-300 HP. That would be fun.

If you put a larger motor in a formula vee chasis, I don't think you'd be competative in any autocross class. I would imagine you'd be in Bmod or worse Amod.

I watched a standard FV at an autox this past weekend (which is what got me interested...). They placed him in A.MOD.

The big drawback would be that if you drop in a bigger engine, you are no longer legal for FV.

A standard vee should be classed in F Mod.

Just wanted to comment on that air-cooled Formula Vee pictured in this thread...


According to an article I ran across today, Formula Continental includes the air-cooled versions of Formula Super Vee, Formula Ford 2000, and any of what used to be Formula C.

The Vee is mine now.
I did a work trade for it.

I'll have it home soon.


KT

Down the road from Sears
You track days will be much fun
And a lot cheaper

I see what we did there...


KT

Start of my project!:

http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...P1140142-1.jpg

http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...P1140145-1.jpg

http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...P1140146-1.jpg


KT

If you want more power the Porsche would be fun, but you get more ponies per dollar with a hot-rodded VW motor.
What is it with the gearhead instinct to take something without power and add power to it, rather than just getting a more powerful car/truck/racer to begin with? I've done it - always ended up spending more money and, yeah, having more fun than if I'd just bought something with a bigger stock motor. Just can't leave well enough alone. I used to drill out the carburetors on the family lawnmower. Pissed my dad off to no end.

Since this thread has been revived, I will update my situation.
Thread was started in 2006.
In May 2007 I purchased two formula vee cars, pictured below. The green one is a Zink and the blue chassis is a Beech (Beach?) Photos were taken on the day I bought them and still have the previous owners name and graphics.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1334319932.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1334319960.jpg

I raced the green one in solo vee for the rest of the 2007 season. The blue one ran and drove fine, but I just stuck with the green one since it had the zero roll suspension setup and faster engine.

I then sold them both in the spring of 2008 around the same time I sold my house and moved.

I don't know what kind of horsepower it puts out (1600cc dual port with weber IDF) but I had a LOT of fun in that car. Never brought home a single trophy, but for some reason I wish I still had it to play around in.

My Zink that I run in SOVREN vintage in the PNW. We run pre 70 monoposto rules, single port, 1200cc, built engines that aren't too exotic run about 55hp I believe. There are certainly faster cars out there but no closer racing and no better group of guys to do it with. Oh, and no cheaper way to go vintage racing which is becoming more and more of a concern for me. I thought when I got in to this sport I was going to build up a 912 or 911 and still have that project car but I don't think I could afford that over time with the cost and frequency of engine work.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1334322863.jpg

I want to do something like this.

I have two sets of wheels, 8x13 and 10x13.
I will need the four lug drums to do this.

Should dominate the local autocross scene.


KT

My wheels were from Keizer (Keizer Aluminum Wheels : We Expect The Results You Dream About)
You might want to consider disc brakes rather than drums.
Of course, check the GCR and see if they are legal - i can't remember.

Lots of parts and complete cars can be found here: Race Car Supply
And they also have a forum: http://formulavee.org/interchange

A car with a 50 year old suspension design won't dominate anything no matter how wide the tires are.

http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/Mvc-016f.jpg

http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/Mvc-017f.jpg

This is what the car looked like when I brought back to Napa 6 years ago.


KT

A vee with good rubber and a good driver will dominate the autox, unless a F500 shows up.

Sorry but no it won't.

I think it has a chance to take TTOD at any PCA event.


KT

Having raced modern small bike engined cars and shifter karts and even an A-mod at SCCA autocross (including nationals) I can confirm that no, an FV will not take TTOD at a competitive autocross.

A good judge of performance for cars in the classes is the PAX index for adjusted top times- 1.000 is the fastest recorded times, everything is normalized from that. Every year, either A-mod cars or FSAE cars post the fastest times at nationals. The rest of the top times in each class are normalized.

http://home.comcast.net/~paxrtp/results/nationals/2011_nationals.pdf

PAX for the class most FV cars would be in would be about .900


That doesn't mean it's not damn fun to drive one.