Did Prohibition kill millions of Americans?

[fastpat]

It would be hard to judge just how many Americans died as a result of Prohibition, that vile offspring of the Progressive Movement beginning in the 19th century.

No, I'm not talking about gang warfare and turf battles, those only took a few thousand lives. I'm talking about the Southern farmers who, deprived of their huge grape growing revenues, turned to tobacco. Thus inabling millions of people to begin the nicotine habit. And the deprivation of life saving natural nutrients found in native grapes, and almost no place else.

Until Prohibition, Vineyards in the south were the largest in America, with North Carolina leading the nation in wine production. Not only that, most of these wines were made from native muscadine grapes, which it turns out contain many times more phytonutrients that prevent heart disease and other ailments than vinifera wine grapes imported from europe.
http://www.ncmuscadine.org/Pages/History-Page.htm

Fortunately, the muscadine is staging a remarkabole comeback. Intensive research at NC State University and the University of Arkansas is yielding muscadines that have a higher sugar content for winemaking and with thin, edible skins instead of the thick skins of wild muscadines.

Amazing what you can learn on the internet.
http://www.muscadine.com/winery.htm

The moral of this story is, when anyone proposes a law "for our own good", revile them, and then ignore them and make sure your lawmakers ignore them too.

[David]

And how many inner city kids (and adults) are killed everyday because they're trying to make a quick buck by dealing drugs that only have a high profit margin because of drug laws. While white kids do the drugs in their safe surburban neighborhoods where one occationally dies from an overdose but the vast majority live safety far away from where the real dying happens. How many kids are killed when someone kills them because they think they have drugs and money like the 4 young adults brutally killed here in Clear Lake a few years ago.

[Mr_Wizard]

Pat,

Your lips are moving but all I hear is: WAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Mr_Wizard
Pat,

Your lips are moving but all I hear is:

Perhaps you inadvertantly left off any facts you were going to post in opposition to what I posted.

That's Okay, you may post again.

[Jeff Higgins]

Gubmint simply needs to stay out of several areas of our lives, one of which is what we choose to consume. It's incredible to me how many are comfortable with laws governing what they can ingest; it's such a normal part of their lives now that they see nothing at all wrong with it. We are losing; the sheer weight of the apathetic masses is dragging us down.

[IROC]

I watched an interesting show on the History Channel the other night on the history of drugs in this country. I had no idea that *all* drugs were legal up until something like 1915 or so. Drug use in this country today is nothing compared to what it used to be.

Not long after drugs were outlawed, prohibition was tried. What a mistake.

Even though I would not use drugs even if they were legal, I think our "war on drugs" has been a complete and phenomenal failure. There has got to be a better way.

Sorry for getting off topic in....off topic....

Mike

[Mr_Wizard]

Originally posted by fastpat
Perhaps you inadvertantly left off any facts you were going to post in opposition to what I posted.

That's Okay, you may post again.

Nope did it on purpose. There is no point arguing with you. You are never open to opposing points of view. It is Pat's way or the highway. So again to all of your posts I say:

Your lips may be moving but all I hear is WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! and the occasional Impeach Bush, The South Will Rise Again, Lincoln was a monster and I applaud his assassination etc...

You are a BEM. (Booger Eating Moron) Please stay in your compound and don't procreate. We need no more of your kind. The world is already filled with enough stupid people.

[Jims5543]

Man, if coke was legal my nickname would be Guardrail Jones.


Look at Ephedrine. 6 morons die from taking too much and it is banned. Meanwhile Cigarettes are legal because you die slowly.

[cashflyer]

Prohibition was masterminded by the tobacco industry.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by cashflyer
Prohibition was masterminded by the tobacco industry.

They certainly had a huge part in it, that's a historical fact.

The early days of the FDA, empowered by the Harrison Narcotics Act, are interesting as well. The first chairman of that onerous agency tried to outlaw caffeine at the same time he succeeded in outlawing cocaine. It was an early use of the commerce clause to grant government power to itself which was not actually granted by the Constitution.

Anyhow, it's good to see the muscadine grape making such a comeback.
http://www.uark.edu/depts/ifse/grapeprog/musca.htm
http://www.muscadine.com/
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-0774/
Scroll down to muscadine grape links: http://library.missouristate.edu/links/agnic/vit/vit3.htm

[on-ramp]

people die and are born every day. yep, get used to it.

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by fastpat
It would be hard to judge just how many Americans died as a result of Prohibition, that vile offspring of the Progressive Movement beginning in the 19th century.

No, I'm not talking about gang warfare and turf battles, those only took a few thousand lives. I'm talking about the Southern farmers who, deprived of their huge grape growing revenues, turned to tobacco. Thus inabling millions of people to begin the nicotine habit. And the deprivation of life saving natural nutrients found in native grapes, and almost no place else.

I dont get it. If I was not able to drink I would not think of nicotine as a replacement. Farmers created a demand just by planting tobbaco seeds?

Besides, I thought Nascar that great Southern sport was an outgrowth of the moon-shining hot-rodders of that era? You would rather have some bad wine but no Nascar? Pat you better be quiet on this subject. Your hillbilly neighbors are heating up the tar and breaking open the pillows...

[fastpat]

Originally posted by gaijindabe
I dont get it. If I was not able to drink I would not think of nicotine as a replacement. Farmers created a demand just by planting tobbaco seeds?

Sometimes I think the obvious is, well, obvious. When the farmers who had been supplying grapes to the wineries could no longer do so because the market evaporated they turned to another crop, tobacco. The wine grape market was very large at the turn of the century in North Carolina and Virginia, much larger than it was in California at the time.

Paul Garrett, born in Edgecombe County in 1863, became North Carolina's most famous and prosperous wine maker. In 1865 his father, Francis Marion Garrett, and wealthy uncle, Charles Garrett, purchased the Medoc Vineyard located in Halifax County. At age 21, Paul Garrett became salesman for the winery, when it sold due to his uncle's death. In 1900 at age 37, Paul Garrett struck out on his own following sales commission disputes with the new owners and established his own winery at Littleton. By 1903 Paul Garrett & Company had 5 wineries in North Carolina with the largest at Aberdeen. During the next 16 years Paul Garrett built a nationwide wine empire. He did it by outbidding other wineries for Scuppernong grapes, buying everything he could find. He blended the juice with New York and California wines, but kept the Scuppernong flavor predominant. Paul developed a new label "Virginia Dare" and began promoting American wines for Americans. Virginia Dare white and red became known to everyone and was the leading selling wine in the nation. It won the grand prize in the Louisiana Purchase Exhibition in 1904. According to the sixth federal census, North Carolina was the leading wine producing state in the United States.http://www.ncwine.org/consumer/history_winery.html

Besides, I thought Nascar that great Southern sport was an outgrowth of the moon-shining hot-rodders of that era? You would rather have some bad wine but no Nascar? Pat you better be quiet on this subject. Your hillbilly neighbors are heating up the tar and breaking open the pillows...

I am a southerner, you have no idea about this subject. I'm educating you, but you must be interested in learning.

[Seahawk]

Very difficult leap, Pat...although the data is mixed:

In the United States, Prohibition was accomplished by means of the Eighteenth Amendment to the national Constitution (ratified January 16, 1919) and the Volstead Act (passed October 28, 1919). Prohibition began on January 16, 1920, when the Eighteenth Amendment went into effect. Federal Prohibition agents (police) were given the task of enforcing the law. Principal impetus for the accomplishment of Prohibition were members of the Republican Party and the Prohibition Party.

Prohibition also referred to that part of the Temperance movement which wanted to make alcohol illegal. These groups brought about much change even prior to national prohibition. By 1905, three American states had already outlawed alcohol; by 1912, it was up to nine states; and, by 1916, legal prohibition was already in effect in 26 of the 48 states.

This link is interesting as well. Read the timeline, much inference can be made.

http://www.tobacco.org/resources/history/Tobacco_History20-1.html

The internet is a wondeful thing...

[nostatic]

Originally posted by on-ramp
people die and are born every day. yep, get used to it.

lies, lies, and more lies. How can you look at yourself in the mirror?

[teenerted1]

Originally posted by fastpat
[B]The wine grape market was very large at the turn of the century in North Carolina and Virginia, much larger than it was in California at the time.

yes but many of the California winery's were smart enough to make a deal with the catholic church to be able to still produce sacramental wine. after prohibition they were able to make comeback and be a world leader in wine production.

wonder why the south couldn't figure out this loophole? would have been a respectable way to get out of the woods, instead getting busted at the still by the revenuers.

[Dixie]

For all those who have never had muscadine wine... If you're drinking it, it's because there's no gasoline to drink. (Seriously, the stuff is nothing like a nice Cabernet or Pinot Noir.) As for prohibition, South Carolina has a long history of moon shining that existed before and after prohibition.

So what’s my point? I seriously doubt Prohibition did much of anything to stem alcohol consumption. The North imported it. The South distilled their own.

Pat’s just finding more windmills to joust.

[scottmandue]

Our founding fathers were a bunch of pot heads!

[munro86]

Of course people were/are forced to take up smoking.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by nostatic
lies, lies, and more lies. How can you look at yourself in the mirror?

i think you misunderstood me. oh well.