Now Ecclestone comes out in support of Renault...

LeRoux Strydom · 06:39 AM

from here:
http://www.news24.com/News24/Sport/More_Sport/0,,2-9-32_1998033,00.html

Ecclestone: Renault robbed
13/09/2006 13:33 - (SA)

Hamburg - Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone has come out in support of Renault and the team's boss Flavio Briatore over the controversial five-place penalty given to Fernando Alonso.

The world champion was placed back five places on the grid after race stewards found him guilty of hindering Ferrari's Felipe Massa during qualifying.

Ecclestone told Wednesday's edition of Sport Bild that the decision to ban the 'mass damper' on the Renault had already been wrong.

"But the penalty for Alonso is a farce."

Alonso managed to move into third place from tenth during Sunday's Italian Grand Prix but had to withdraw with engine problems, allowing Ferrari's Michael Schumacher, who won the race, to close the gap on the Spaniard to just two points with three races to go.

Ecclestone said he had watched the video, spoken to Renault officials and the FIA technical director Charlie Whiting. "I just can't see any evidence that Alonso hindered Massa."

He added that he believed that the only team that received assistance from the sports governing body, FIA, was Ferrari.

Renault boss Briatore had earlier said he believed FIA was rigging the championship in favour of Ferrari and Schumacher, but had later withdrawn the statements.

Anybody wants to re-think their opinion that the FIA is interested in any other winner than Ferrari/MS? I would not be surprised if the earlier rumours of a rival race format to the current F1 circus formed by some breakaway teams will come up again.

Jims5543 · 09-13-2006, 06:44 AM

I thought the FA holding up Massa ruling was a farce as well. But, then again, I thought MS's penalty in Hungary for "passing during red" was a farce and way too strong of a penalty if any but proved MS was not being favored.

I also thought Monaco was a frace and proved, once again, MS was not being favored.

I did not understand why FA was penalized and looked for footage and cannot see anything anywhere that shows him holding up Massa, if anythingt he opposite was true Massa was getting a tow on the long straights. The announcers even said that during quali.

It will not be a problem after this year if this indeed is the case.

Rodeo · 09-13-2006, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
***I also thought Monaco was a frace and proved, once again, MS was not being favored. ***

Man, you had me till that part ... Monaco was poor sportsmanship and ever poorer acting.

Michael parked the car and then looked like my grandmother getting flummoxed trying to back out of the driveway. But he's not my grandmother, he's perhaps the greatest driver of all time, and badly in need of acting classes.

Jims5543 · 09-13-2006, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
Man, you had me till that part ... Monaco was poor sportsmanship and ever poorer acting.

Michael parked the car and then looked like my grandmother getting flummoxed trying to back out of the driveway. But he's not my grandmother, he's perhaps the greatest driver of all time, and badly in need of acting classes.

2 Weeks later he did the same exact thing in the pits I believe it was on Saturday between qualifying session. He tried to get into reverse and it would not engage, then when it did it stalled. Resorting to having the pit crew push the car backwards.

Why is it so impossible to believe he was trying not to hit the wall and then stalled the car. He stalled it in the pits 2 weeks later and no one batted an eye.

I really do not think he would be stupid enough to pull a stunt like that on purpose.

Dottore · 09-13-2006, 07:30 AM

The FIA regularly makes controversial calls. Much like referees in soccer. But I think to look for a pro Ferrari/MS pattern or bias in these calls is really stretching it.

Bernie is probably pissed at the MS retirement thing and what that will do to the ratings.

Jims5543 · 09-13-2006, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dottore
The FIA regularly makes controversial calls. Much like referees in soccer. But I think to look for a pro Ferrari/MS pattern or bias in these calls is really stretching it.

Bernie is probably pissed at the MS retirement thing and what that will do to the ratings.

My point was MS get penalized just like the rest. FA pulled an illegal pass last weekend and appeared to get away with it, right up until he blew his engine, one could say the FIA was turning its head during the race because they knew they screwed the pooch on the quali call.

Or, if the Stewards made FA do a drive through penalty all hell would have broken loose, although he deserved it, it would have been another MS conspiracy.

Jim Richards · 09-13-2006, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dottore
Bernie is probably pissed at the MS retirement thing and what that will do to the ratings.

My 2 cents (US)...I don't think this is valid. I expect that without MS, there will be more variability in the race results and this will likely make it more interesting to the fans...especially the non-Tifosi fans.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Bernie is a putz. I don't have much respect for anything he says, and always question his motives.

We saw the video, but didn't see telemetry off the cars, or have other data. Massa complained. The stewards comment (or maybe it was Moseley) was, "you didn't see all the data, we did." So I'm not sure we can make the determination. I agree from the video it didn't look like he was hindered.

But like most sports, the calls seem to even out. As has been said, MS's 2 second penalty was ridiculous, and likely only due to Renault lobbying the stewards. FA had 2 seaparate infractions that weekend (and the brake check was very serious imho), getting 1 second for each. MS has essentially a technicality and get a single 2 second penalty. That's the way sports go though...

motion · 09-13-2006, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
My point was MS get penalized just like the rest. FA pulled an illegal pass last weekend and appeared to get away with it, right up until he blew his engine, one could say the FIA was turning its head during the race because they knew they screwed the pooch on the quali call.

Or, if the Stewards made FA do a drive through penalty all hell would have broken loose, although he deserved it, it would have been another MS conspiracy.

In addition, FA started the race with his front tires beyond the white line... just another example of the steward's looking the other way after the bogus call. All this talk about fixed races and conspiracies is a bunch of hooey. Michael will win the championship this year and he will earn it.

LeRoux Strydom · 09-13-2006, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nostatic
Bernie is a putz....

He's only worth a couple of $ billion. What does that make us look like?

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

the value of a man is not determined by his bank account

but if Bernie could give me a couple $$$ I'll gladly retract my putz comment...

LeRoux Strydom · 09-13-2006, 09:40 AM

I agree, but he did not make his money by being a putz.

JSDSKI · 09-13-2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motion
Michael will win the championship this year and he will earn it.

Only with the latecoming assistance of FIA - the mass damper ban is a joke - especially with only a few races left. Ferrari would not be in the game if Renault still had it.

If FIA was truly worried about future developments of that technology (dual chassis) they should have banned dual chassis specifically now (since no one had one) and worried about the mass dampers at the end of the season. That would have been the right thing to do.

If they didn't understand the system well enough to identify it as a "movable aero device" when it was first presented - then FIA needs new tech guys. Renault has been improperly tripped up. Their whole car, systems, strategy, and tires have all been developed using the mass damper for the last year. It would never have been banned if Ferrari had picked up enough time on the track with their system.

Anyway - it's all about equivalency these days. Spec engines - spec EEC's, spec chassis. CVC / FIA wanted to spice up the WDC and they installed their version of plate restrictors - bans and penalty's.

Now, F1 is just NASCAR with better shoes and watches

Still think Alonso will take the WDC, tho.

artplumber · 09-13-2006, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JSDSKI
Only with the latecoming assistance of FIA - the mass damper ban is a joke - especially with only a few races left. Ferrari would not be in the game if Renault still had it.

....

Too true. And what about the extra brake "ducting" on Ferraris?

Yeah MS will win the WDC, but because the FIA wants to send him out in style.

serge944 · serge944's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by JSDSKI
Only with the latecoming assistance of FIA - the mass damper ban is a joke - especially with only a few races left. Ferrari would not be in the game if Renault still had it.

Why are you spreading this slanderous filth?

You act like ferrari wasn't competitive earlier in the season. MS 2nd in Bahrain, 5th on the grid to 1st at San Marino, 5th on the grid to 1st at the Ring, 5th to 2nd in Spain, etc.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

and if FA is such a great driver, the mass damper shouldn't make any difference

JSDSKI · 09-14-2006, 02:11 PM

HA - McLaren had their own mass damper but the weight was improperly distributed around Montoya's beltline. That's the real reason he was sent to Nascar. To learn Tony Stewart's mass damper cornering techniques !

Don't worry, tifosi, next year FA will have to drive the MBZ grenades

Altho - it will be interesting to see if he is "easier" on the Mac's than Kimi "Major Psycho Monotone" has been. I wonder what Kimi's Italian nickname will be ? Monotononni ? Kimianni ? Il Ghiaccio?