Rhodesian Ridgeback vs German Shepherd
 

I was recommending a German Shepherd, probably of german bloodlines, to a buddy as a family pet and for protection. He and his wife have a 3-year old son and a 7-month old daughter. Recently someone tried to break into his house at 3:30am when he wasn't supposed to be there, and he wound up only a few feet from the would-be intruder when he got up and looked through the glass of his bedroom door. Now he's hot for a dog, but another friend was touting the Rhodesian Ridgeback. I've seen a few over the years, and I know they're tough and very brave, and seem to be fairly mellow. His friend raves about his RR, and my buddy likes the shorter coat. What do you think the pros/cons are between these two breeds?

Hello,

I have two male Rhodesians (Mason and Moses), and they are the perfect dog. They are intelligent, highly trainable, extremely low maintenance good with kids (we have a four year old and an 18 month old). They are as strong as an ox and can run like the wind. They are fearless, yet loving and loyal. Not to mention they are beautiful to look at.

Mason is the son of a 5 time Canadian/American champion and Moses is his first cousin. Mason is 105 lbs, and Moses is 117, and you can see the veins in their upper legs, isolated triceps, and prominent pectoral chest muscles! They are impressive. I got them both at 8 weeks, and Mason is now 9 years old and Moses is 8.

I am a big fan of these animals, would highly recommend them, and would consider getting them again when Mason and Moses move on to the big Rhodesia in the sky.

edit: My best friend has a 90lb German Shepherd male, and while capable, smart and worthy in his own right, I am confident he would be short work for Moses. :D

JA

I'm guessing you're not looking for the best dog for a fighting ring so detailing how a RR would take down a GSD is pointless. However your comments on the RR's character is priceless.

We had a male GSD for a couple years. Counter to my best efforts to socialize him the dog was not good company in public and proved that I could not trust him around anyone outside our immediate family without supervision. I loved the dog and hated him at the same time. It was a shame that we had to let him go but I felt it was in the best interest of our family. I know without a doubt he would have taken apart an intruder or someone showing hostile intent to the family. It was the other, less harmful situations, like my son playing rough house with a buddy, that the dog could not distinguish. We decided to not live under that amount of responsibility. The dog now lives with folks on a farm and we are all very happy.

I love the GSD breed. No other dog has the presence these dogs do.

RRs are very good dogs; every one that I have seen has a good temperament and was sociable. I have known people w/ magnificent examples, very beautiful. If the people can own a large dog, they probably won't go wrong w/ a RR provided that they take the usual precautions that anyone adopting or purchasing a purebred dog should. Those include seeing the parents and the documentation that proofs health and pedigree. The parents will be the indicator of temperament and intelligence.

There is a fair amount of variance within any breed between the best and worst, this is particularly true with very popular breeds that are "over bred". There can also be some difference within one family of dogs, just like human families. But genetics are (almost) everything w/ dogs.

Since I can only have one dog, the choice is easy for me. I have had two GSDs in a row, both have been flawlessly behaved w/ children which is partly training but mostly genetics. The good dogs have been painstakingly bred for temperament and intelligence and raised w/ families for countless generations. As for any toughness contest between breeds, RRs are not even in the running. But that should not matter.

Since we're bragging, (some of us), ;), my current dog's great-GF is 6-time national champion. (GGF on both sides). I do not show my dog, but if I did he would rule. He is arguably the best looking Heidelberg GSD that anyone has seen, and he has a stride like, well, a champion. Here is a link showing his GGF, (top left dog), and pics of my dog:

http://www.heidelberg-usa.com/

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1158219491.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1158219539.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1158219821.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1158222669.jpg



Beautiful imo.

as I spent almost 24/7/365 for 10yrs with a junk yard born GS.

In many countries in Scandinavia and the rest of Europe, the GSD is being used with the Police force. Its been favored because its highly trainable, predictable under stress and stable tempered. Its also the no one selling dog in Sweden with private owners.

I think the main home security function of a dog is to be alert and bark. Smaller dogs do that as well as larger ones.

Might want to talk w/ local police or maybe there is info online. I'd be interested if there is actually any evidence of greater security from having a large dog that could bring the intruder down, vs an alert smaller dog that alerts the family and lets the intruder know he's been detected. I kind of doubt it.

If I'm right, then your friend can pick from a wide variety of breeds.

Personally, I think GSDs are great and have known some wonderful ones. I had a shepherd/doberman mix that was a truly excellent dog. If I were to get another dog, though, I'd might get a smaller breed simply because they're easier to take on car trips.

Do you really want your dog attacking burglars? What John says has a lot of merit. Simply barking and raising a ruckus will send most fleeing, and let you know there is something going on long before its fighting ability is tested. Just get a dog you like and that will play with the kids. Make it a part of the family and have fun.

I'm a retriever man myself. I have had a string of Black Labs, and now Golden Retrievers, since I was young. I raised both of my boys, now 18 and 15, with a lab when they were little and the golden by the time they were about ten. Great dogs for kids (as would be either of your choices) but never chosen for their prowess as guard dogs. Most dogs will moonlight as one in a pinch. So don't worry about it.

Lets even up the photo count! This was my dog - Tyumi - a great dog - very freindly - great with kids (he thought he was just another kid) super intelligent - great guard dog - he weighed 154 pounds the last time I could get him to stand on the scales. Only growled at an adult who approached me once - and I didnt like the guy either.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1158240534.jpg

On the Downs in Sussex

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1158240709.jpg

English Bull Terrier - 55 lbs, knee height - short coat - Excellent guard dog, excellent with the kids.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1158241380.jpg

I agree with the barking statements to an extent. A bark from a large dog is far more intimidating than from a small dog.

I have a 100lb. Chocolate Lab that has sent many uninvited door to door salesmen falling backward off our front steps to get away just from his bark. He is a perfectly mild mannered, certified Therapy dog that wouldn't hurt a thing. He absolutely loves our 17 month old son, and is a blast. I wouldn't recommend a Lab if your not into exercising though. They require a lot of work, and time, but are very rewarding if you work at it.

Please keep in mind, also that burglars are just as likely to have dogs as pets themselves, and are not afraid of a barking dog. Anyone who has spent significant time with dogs can make protective family dogs submissive.

Here's a pic of our ferocious friend.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1158241932.jpg

I think you would do well with either breed (RR and GS). Get out the breeder carefully and get the dog based upon temperment of the parents.

I agree that small dogs can do a great job barking and discouraging potential intruders. My thought in recommending a GSD was also to discourage assaults when my friend's wife and children are on their own, for example, when his wife is out jogging.

Denis- your GSD is absolutely gorgeous. A few years ago, my brother was looking seriously for a GSD and we went to some shows. When you see a properly bred GSD, they're as sweet and approachable as a Golden Retriever. Those are also the ones that have the courage when it counts. My brother came across this breeder in Angels Camp that was recommended. We're actually going there Sunday, as he's back in the saddle.

FWIW, the local sheriff told my friend that the GSDs frighten the bad guys the most effectively. How qualified that opinion was, I have no idea. In reading some limited web pages about the breeds, they both get high marks. They both require a good deal of work, too. The RRs get noted for being more stubborn, and not as amenable to obedience training, especially in comparison to GSDs. They are also noted for not being super tolerant to small children pestering them vs GSDs.

Little kids can certainly dole out the "abuse" to any pet. Poking eyes, grabbing tales, twisting ears, etc. When my boys were really little their favorite trick was to run full-bore down the hall and body slam our sleeping lab (his favorite nap spot was at the end of the hall). It takes a great deal of patience, and an even temperment, for a dog to put up with little kids. Find that, and regardless of the breed you will have a keeper.

I had a shephard and now a ridgeback, neither was pure bred, but both are wonderful dogs for a family. They are very patient with children.

Get a little poodle or terrier. Something that will bark and not eat the kids. There's the mailman, meter reader, and other problems like lawsuits that exist if you get an agressive dog. Insurers now ask about dogs while writing homeowner policies.

A noisy dog can be a better deterrent than a viscous dog. It's not the size of the bark, it's noise that draws attention that burglars don't like.

All great points here. I thought it would be prudent to add a couple more thoughts based on some of the feedback:

1) My Ridgebacks almost NEVER bark, so that would be a strike against them as guard dogs. And I agree, I think the barking is more important than how much they can bench press!

2) A German Shepherd is much more intimidating looking, which is also very important in "deterring" the intruder. RR's look pretty sweet in my opinion, but I have seen some people stop in their tracks when approaching my dogs. Can't say I understood that, but I guess that's because I know them.

3) I didn't intend to imply that "my dog can beat up your dog", but I kind of did. Honestly, I have debated whether my dogs would defend or hold the door open while a burgular carried out the flat screen. I'm not sure.

I love all dogs. I have had a remarkable experience with these RR's, and would not hesitate recommending them to anyone.


JA

We recently adopted a Groenendael (one of the breeds of Belgian Shephard). 65 pounds, medium coat, deep throaty bark. They are hearding dogs, similar background to the German Shephard and not so popular so as to avoid in-breeding.

She gives a one or two bark notice if someone is near the house, before they even touch the door or we hear anything. Other Malinois and Groenendael I've been around in the past (few) have been the same. Very loving to the family and stand-offish to strangers. We don't know if she'll bite/defend but her hackles raise and she stands out when someone gets close to my wife!!! Nice little all black doggie with white teeth that chomp through cow thigh bones in less than five minutes...

I'm more for an animal that will be part of the family and defend as a second choice. What about terriers? Our old one was vicious (read as aggressively protective with sound effects and spittle!!!) when my wife was threatened once.

I agree 100% that you do not want a dog that will "eat the kids", but you also do not want a dog that will bite a child, period. Yours or anyone else's. If you own a Yorkie and it bites a child, it could cause injury. Plus you will get sued and lose. I happen to like (most) Poodles and Terriers, but people need to use due diligence when getting a dog that will be around kids and/or strangers. As much as I would like to rescue a dog, (and I have for other people), I want to see the parents of the dog I will own for a decade or more. I'll try to get a picture of Romeo with some kids today when I go for coffee up the street, he's great and they love him. He gets mobbed by toddlers once their parents clear it.

Thank you for the compliments guys, and Steve, that looks like an excellent breeder. Did you click the link in my post? Those dogs are just like mine only bigger, they would stop traffic w/ their beauty or make an intruder schit in his pants.

The three dogs posted after mine are beauties, I would be thrilled to own any one of them. Dogs are one of the greatest things about this experience of being on earth, IMO. :cool:

Samson, my 5 year old GSD is excellent around my children (3.5 yo daughter, 3 month old son) and is very well trained. he comes from a great family, and I took the time to train him properly, which makes him a great companion for our family.

When it comes to barking belive it or not, Casey Jones, my 4 year old Pug is much more aggressive. Of course, he knows Samson has his six, so that is probably why.

I highly reccomend the GSD.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1158253184.jpg

John, RRs are absolutely magnificent animals, bottom line. The site of one would cause a coronary if it caught most intruders by surprise. I was at someone's house last night that had a life-sized, stuffed animal Rottweiler positioned like it was peeking out from behind a wall in the LR, I'm telling you it was hilarious because when you see it your brain freezes w/ surprise and you would not stick around to look closer at it. (In the dark). RWs are known for not barking, letting an intruder in, then not letting them leave. Bad people know this. ;)

I'm not sure what my dog would do to an aggressor, he is a big baby and no special training. Just companion/kids stuff. But he is a great watch dog w/ a radar for sketchy people, (bums mostly), and he has an absolute Dolby THX bark that you would not believe. Like it was created by Steven Spielberg. :)

My Astronomy teacher had a RR and would let him walk around the classroom freely. He was a very good dog and was great around people. Bred for hunting lions, they are supposed to be pretty fearles.

Another dog he may want to consider since he likes the short hair is a german shorthaired pointer. I grew up with one and that was by far the best dog we ever owned (we've had several). Very loyal and intelligent, but they do need exercise. Ours ran freely on our ranch and would bark at strange cars as they drove up the driveway. When the cars would get to the parking area he would stand by the door barking until one of us came out and everything checked out ok. Then he would sniff the stranger and walk off or sometimes he hung around. Such a good dog. He lived for about 13 years.

A good source for K-9 info would be AKC.org.

RR's are great dogs. I had a shorthaired german pointer several years ago. Smartest dog I ever had. The GSD is pretty intimidating. Also a great breed. The whole point is really to have a dog that looks scary, but is friendly. Since you live in a warmer climate, you migh want to also consider a dobe. They are high maintence in that they always want to be with you, all of the time. They are sweet though. I have one now. She looks scary, but is way, way too friendly. She loves people. We spent a lot of time socializing her when she was a puppy. This was obviously before kids. She is my third dobe. Whatever dog you get, I highly recommend obedience classes. Even if you take them at the local Petsmart, I believe it makes a big difference. Interacting with others is a big factor in having a friendly dog. I'm rambling, so I am going to stop and go get a coffee.
Mike:)

My boss' sister in-law's husband had one in Rhodesia. When her husband was murdered, the dog never left his grave. They would take the dog food and water, but he died on his master's grave. That's devotion.

My old roommate in Austin has one. I've never seen a more ferocious but good family dog.

On the other hand my great aunt had a German Shepperd for years. One day it grabbed one of the grand-babies and took off running. The baby survived with minor injuries, the dog didn't.

If you have a dog that can do damage, make sure you're insurance covers it. When we moved into our house, all we could get was a Lloyd's of London policy until a regular policy became available. Someone could drown in our pool and we were covered, but we had zero coverage for dog bites.

All the dogs I used to have, the only one who ever bit anyone was my chow. Three bites in one summer. Until we got her meds figured out. Fortunately 1 was a close friend, 1 was my mother in law, and 1 was the kid of a neighbor who had just backed into my car, so we essentially swapped a door panel for a (very minor) puncture wound. But yes, dog bites are a real liability risk.

A lot of excellent points in this thread. I think to a certain extent, a good upbringing will determine what kind of dog you have.

Samson (the GSD) has only gotten visably aggressive once, and that is when my wife was on a walk with my daughter in the stroller and and an unchained dog came running out of someones garage towards them. Was my wife upset, no, scared a little, but the GSD did not charge the random dog, he just stood directly in front of my daughters stroller and growled. The owner came running and apologized over and over (we live in a nice area, so its not like it was a pit bull or anything).

Just a short story.

Bill

Yes, I did. Also forwarded to my brother. Lots of useful info there.

Plenty of horror stories about GSDs, but I think 99% of the disposition problems can be eliminated by getting a properly bred dog, as well as most of the health issues. Most problems with GSDs are due to unqualified breeding, IMHO. A former R1100S Pelican posted this picture of his puppy he got directly from Germany, Achilles. He said a top GSD has the intelligence of a 6 year old. I would love to be able to have a dog like this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1100266986.jpg

Wow, that's a cute puppy. Little monkey. You hit it on the head w/ regards to breeding. Breeding dogs is not some crap-shoot thing where you just throw them together and hope for the best, it is a painstaking science. A science in every sense of the word.

Think of the variations in humans, from a completely psychopathic murderer to the inventor of the polio vaccine or something. And the variations in health, both physical and mental. Not to mention intelligence. Animals are not that much different, except that humans on the wrong side of the bell curve have interfered w/ their breeding in the case of mean, unstable dogs for cheap guard duty.

Buyer beware w/ dogs. See both parents or no deal w/ purebreds. JMNSHO.

Checked out this RR breeder. Gonna take a pass...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1158272871.jpg

what about a boxer? medium size, short hair, VERY good/patient with kids etc. ours only barks when someone approaches the house. however, they really can't bite due to their jaw design.

also, for some reason, a lot of people find them intimidating to look at.

+1 on the Boxer

I've owned several dogs; all mutts. The friendliest and biggest was a half choc lab, half Rottie. One hundred twenty five pounds of pure lap dog. Had a scary bark but no bite whatsoever. Man, I miss Rufus. I have his ashes on my bookcase in my office.

Agree 100%. Have had many dogs and breeds. Best all around watchdog AND protection was the Schnauzer. Nasty little bastard. If you made a gun with your hand and pointed it at him he'd attack you.

Our Mastifs were absolutely brutal to delivery people when we were home but would run upstairs and hide when we left the house.

Scott

Absolutely not true. My Sister-In-Law's two Boxers have been quite able to leave some pretty deep marks on me from roughhousing. They may not have massive jaw strength, but compared to my Lab their teeth are like barbed wire.

I do agree they are great dogs though. Very intimidating, but quite well mannered, and great with children.

When we get together with my wife's family we have a 100lb. Lab, a 70lb. Boxer, a 50lb. Boxer, a 22lb. Pug, and a 18lb. Pekingese. The dog that is the absolute worst around children, or any people for that matter is the Pek. Just because they're cute, doesn't mean they're cuddly.

Wayne

That, IMHO, the the best kinda guard dog - one that is only friendly with your immediate family.

When I was growing up, we used to live in Passaic, NJ. Rough and tough urban town. We had TWO guard dogs - one for outside, and one from the inside. The outside dog was a German Shepard. Both did not trust anyone except the immediate family - my parents, my sister, and me. The Shepard was known to bite. And it kept the bad people away. The inside dog, a Hungarian Puli, was even more viscious than the Shepard. With either dog, all that was necessary was to give the command, "Fogd meg." In Hungarian, that's catch him. They would be ready and willing to tear after anyone at that point.

Oh, they were also fun to rough-house with.

But the bottom line - if you want a guard dog, you only want that dog to be trusted only with your immediate family. Otherwise, he won't do a thing if there's a breakin.

-Z

My grandpa had an english bull terrier in england. He owned a pub. At night, Butch would stay in the pub to sleep. The lived down the block and in the morning my grandfather would go to the pub to take Butch for a walk, every morning.

One morning, the door to the pub was ajar - my granda walked in, and their was a buglar cornered, fearful, with bite marks all over his arms and legs.

My grandpa called the police, the policeman arrived, sat down and filled out his report with a cup of coffe or two, all the time with Butch keeping watch on the buglar. Everytime the guy would twitch to move, the dog would growl at him.

He owned 5 or 6 english bull terriers in his life, all named Butch - how funny is that?

Funny? I suppose.

Effective? DEFINATELY!

-Z

Off topic a bit, sorry.

Do you dog people have any suggestions for a 4yr Old English Sheepdog who is starting to get a little "testy" around my 15mo. daughter? No bites but growls a little if the kid starts climbing on her. Dog has no problem with her taking food or toys from her though.

Positive side of this is teaching daughter that you cant climb all over and trust every dog you see, just because you can do it to grandpa's dog.

Joe

Correct that NOW, this how it often goes down.mind you the dog is behaving normal..kids play,dog want's it to stop, latch on..another dog would most likely go submissive, humans freak and start pulling away and make noise, dog applies more pressure to make it stop.. it goes down hilll from there..and sadly it's not the dogs fault..
training a dog to attack is simple..making it stop, is the mark of a well trained dog.
Rika

Rika,
Understood. She is a submissive animal when you meet her. Most likely will pee for you. Any suggestions? I have used a shock collar to teach her yard boundries. Used shock with tone once, and only need tone if I have it on her now. Dont use it much anymore as she is good with her come and stay commands. Maybe I put it back on her and tone her when she is bad. wife and I do keep a sharp eye on this and will take neccessary action if it continues. Hope it doesnt get to that.