ETHANOL is stupid.

Craig 930 RS · 09-13-2006, 09:45 AM

27% reduction in fuel mileage. Geezus......

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

shhh!!!

the beer will hear you

dd74 · 09-13-2006, 09:48 AM

27% reduction? Any reason why?

pwd72s · 09-13-2006, 09:48 AM

Agreed, it's stupid...and not just because of the mileage drop. BUT, should you be asking why? ...follow the money!

Craig 930 RS · 09-13-2006, 09:48 AM

I liked the story of the ethanol worker who was drunk at work from his own product. Rock on!

pwd72s · 09-13-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dd74
27% reduction? Any reason why?

Simple...there is a lot less energy in a gallon of alcohol than in a gallon of gas.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Looks like somoene has a case of ADM

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911
Looks like somoene has a case of ADM

naw, I think he's only got a 6-pack

dd74 · 09-13-2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwd72s
Simple...there is a lot less energy in a gallon of alcohol than in a gallon of gas.

Yeah, I was thinking that, but I wasn't sure of the explanation...

kaisen · 09-13-2006, 09:56 AM

It is renewable, and petroleum is not. It isn't too stupid for that reason alone.

Here in the midwest E85 is up to 50 cents per gallon less than 87 octane, so even a reduction in fuel economy still nets a savings.

bryanthompson · bryanthompson's Garage

even if it's stupid... it's good for my state, so I hope they keep pushing it. It's not oil, so it must be good, right?

Suckers.

dhoward · dhoward's Garage

There's corn in Nebraska?

kaisen · 09-13-2006, 10:01 AM

Ethanol (ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol EtOH) is a clear, colorless liquid made from starch crops, such as corn. E85 is a fuel mixture of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline.

E85 is a renewable fuel that reduces air pollution and America's dependence on foreign oil.

Ethanol has no sulfur, which further supports its status as a clean-fuel option.

In the United States each year, more than 1.5 billion gallons of ethanol are added to gasoline to increase octane and improve emissions quality.

Ethanol production is extremely energy-efficient, with a positive energy balance of 125 percent, compared to 85 percent for gasoline. It's the most efficient method of producing liquid transportation fuels.

Ethanol is low in ozone reactivity, making it an effective tool in reducing ozone pollution.

Ethanol dilutes other potentially harmful components in gasoline such as benzene, toluene and xylene.

Still stupid?

M.D. Holloway · 09-13-2006, 10:02 AM

Pretty dry as well. Your gonna see a bunch more fuel pump and injector tip wear and maybe some seal issues.

The other problem is that it mixes great with water - just what an engine needs is more water in the combustion process. It is a by-product anyway but additional water will also mean a nice increase in the nitration and maybe even carboxylic acid formation. Your oils from Walmart are gonna love hand'ln dat!

NICKG · 09-13-2006, 10:02 AM

what i don't get is, why aren't we going towards biodiesels? we have the surplus agricultural resources and diesel is simple more easily made (re: it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanal than it makes) Europeans have been using diesl small cars heavily for years and i read somewhere where like fully 60% of small cars sold in the EU were diesel. Biodiesel is a completely renewable resource..we would not need mid east oil anymore

pwd72s · 09-13-2006, 10:03 AM

Next up...the amount of fresh water required to make the stuff, how much corn is used that once was used for animal feed, what to do with the left over biomass...alcohol is not the free engery lunch it's promoters imply. Not as friendly to the envrionment as implied either. Bryan..how about that Nebraska aquifier with it's dropping levels? 7 gallons of fresh water used to make a gallon of alcohol? Hmmmm

NICKG · 09-13-2006, 10:05 AM

ethanol production is also HEAVILY subsidized by the US taxpayer...it would be just as or more expensive as gasoline if it wasn't btw

M.D. Holloway · 09-13-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kaisen
It is renewable, and petroleum is not. It isn't too stupid for that reason alone.

Here in the midwest E85 is up to 50 cents per gallon less than 87 octane, so even a reduction in fuel economy still nets a savings.

Well, I notice a power decrease and a milage decrease in all tree of my cars when we switched to 10% ethanol.

As far as renewable - ya for burning it in cars but to harvest it and process it will take diesel and coal. Npot to mention the gov grants. Wheres the balence?

(bio-diesel is an option but the same issue apply in the ecomonics and there are several big issues with bio-diesel as well. )

pwd72s · 09-13-2006, 10:07 AM

Those dinosaurs died for us...

hardflex · 09-13-2006, 10:07 AM

Question: here in Texas we get up to 10% ethanal.

My older (86) Toyota failed emissions because of high Nox, a result of too high cumbustion temps. By running an ethanol mix, wouldn't it lower cumbustion temps and improve my chances of passing the test? And how about the aircooled 914's? Lower mileage, but cooler running? Just wondering.

My wifes Avalon get's about under 25 on the ethanol mix, but upwards of 27 on the straight gas.