Longevity

[Wrecked944]

I've posted here a few times before on the topic of longevity and how I believe it is important to consider and plan for a life span most of currently think impossible. And a lot of people have expressed skepticism - which is certainly understandable.

Anyway, one of the things that makes me so certain that extended lifespan is for real is the fact that we have technologies available today which can slow many aspects of the aging process to a crawl. Those technologies are mostly what I'd call "First Generation" technologies - meaning they produce the intended result but they also bring nasty side effects and have severe limitations. I would expect subsequent technologies to produce better results with fewer side effects and risks.

So to demonstrate the current state of the art in life extension, check out the pics below. The gent in the pics is a famous bodybuilder named Serge Nubret. The pics were taken just after he turned 66 years old.



Obviously, Serge is unlikely to fall down and break a hip any time soon. Of course, we can also assume he is taking a ton of anabolic steroids. And that is what I mean by a "First Generation" technology. Steroids have nasty side effects and can cause liver problems and other awful issues. So they obviously aren't the best solution for slowing the clock. I expect better solutions will become available as time goes on. But until then, the technologies currently available obviously work. I can't even speculate as to how long Serge will live - and live well. He is truly breaking new ground - our species has no prior experience with which to measure his success.

[pmajka]

You cant assume just because he is bulky and defined that he is on steroids.

My uncle started body building when he turned 65. Not quite as big as that but at 75, he is still pumping.


Never to late to start...unless....

[dd74]

To be honest, my problem with your observation arrived when you mentioned the steroid part.

Steroids, I believe, have damaged and/or killed more than they have assisted - at least at the level of bodybuilders, football players and other athletes.

[widgeon13]

He looks healthy but if he is on steroids to achieve that appearance I'm not convinced he is healthy. If all we go by is external physical appearance, why would you go to the doctor, just look in the mirror. Does he get any aerobic/anaerobic exercise or just lift? I hope he lives a long and healthy life from 66 on. I'm just not convinced that appearance is a good measure of health.

[lendaddy]

It's not lack of muscle tone that kills you.

[Wrecked944]

Originally posted by dd74
To be honest, my problem with your observation arrived when you mentioned the steroid part.

Steroids, I believe, have damaged and/or killed more than they have assisted - at least at the level of bodybuilders, football players and other athletes.

That's why I called it a "First Generation" technology. Nearly all first gen technologies are impractical. And that applies to areas beyond medecine. For instance, the Wright Brothers developed a first generation airplane. It solved the problem of controlled flight. But it was unwieldy, expensive, and dangerous. The same can be said for the first digital computers. They solved the problem of digital computation. But they were physically enormous and ate tons of electricity and were terribly unreliable.

The only thing a first generation technology does is prove that a particular problem can be solved. Afterwards, one nearly always sees improved solutions that address the problem more elegantly.

Steroids in particular are a technology from the 1970's. So they are long overdue for replacement. Some people think HGH will be the next big thing. I honestly don't know what will replace roids. All I know is that 'roids have proven that large portions of the "aging problem" can be solved right now. I can't wait to see what they come up with next.

Originally posted by widgeon13
Does he get any aerobic/anaerobic exercise or just lift?

I used to lift a lot and I am very certain that his level of definition would require a lot of aerobics. And while you are correct that outward appearance isn't everything, it is clear that he maintains that appearance through hard core exercise. And despite what Lendaddy says, regular exercise improves nearly everything. Cardio, muscle strength,stamina, even your immune system can benefit from exercise.

Now, can you exercise without roids? Sure. I never did roids and I was ripped back in the day. But as we age, staying in shape gets harder and harder. We lose muscle mass as time goes by and that makes it increasingly difficult to do the hard core workouts needed to stay super fit. And by mentioning the roids, I am merely pointing out that Serge has found a solution to that problem.

So no, the muscles themselves do not constitute health. But you only get them through a super high energy workout program. And that does imply a high level of overall health.

[Vipergrün]

Hmmm, longevity, I can go about an hour, maybe more...

[tabs]

"No one gets out of here alive"....Jim Morrison

We all have to die sometime.....

There really isn't much new under the earth and sky....fashion comes and goes, and comes again slightly reworked. After the 2nd or 3rd time around you get bored....take the movie "The Wizard of OZ" how many times have you seen that movie, and do you really wnat to watch it again? When U start seeing remakes of movies that you have seen before, U know U have been around a long time....for example "The Thomas Crown Affair" .... After awhile you will just get tired of it all....

[dd74]

Originally posted by JanusCole
The only thing a first generation technology does is prove that a particular problem can be solved.

You mean like if this guy's schvanz falls off?

[lendaddy]

Janus,

My brother is built like a brick ****house and does ZERO aerobic activity. He makes a point of pointing this out to people that think you need to run or bike to have a fit body (or the inverse).

[RANDY P]

HGH isn't nearly as powerful as a true anabolic. I have heard of some who have taken the treatment, and the biggest gains have been made in healing - problems with age rapidly go away, but as with all treatments there's still side effects. Nausea, erratic sleep cycles, it's expensive. I'll bet 1/2 of Hollywood is on the stuff, not that it's a magic elixr, but it definitely slows down the aging process.

You're not going to get ripped like Ahnold on the stuff..

Virtually all steroid cocktails screw up your cholesterol levels or have a high risk of damaging thyroid function as well as real damaging long term effects on your cardiovascular system, and sex drive not to mention the crash after taking that stuff is horrendous. Once you start, you don't want to stop until something permanent happens to you.

The psychological aspects are what lead to permanent damage...

[RANDY P]

for a good charge if you're lifting this stuff rocks-

Wakes you up, you get stamina and it's like creatine without all the bloating..

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/xplode.html

[930addict]

Originally posted by lendaddy
It's not lack of muscle tone that kills you.

Exactly. Having big muscles is almost as bad as having high body-fat. Your body still has to compensate for the extra - abnormal - body mass. The heart has to pump harder.

[legion]

At ninety, they lose their teeth and hair; they have at that age no distinction of taste, but eat and drink whatever they can get, without relish or appetite. The diseases they were subject to still continue, without increasing or diminishing. In talking, they forget the common appellation of things, and the names of persons, even of those who are their nearest friends and relations. For the same reason, they never can amuse themselves with reading, because their memory will not serve to carry them from the beginning of a sentence to the end; and by this defect, they are deprived of the only entertainment whereof they might otherwise be capable.

[snowman]

I could post a pict of me at 57, but I don't want to give all the older girls heart failure.

[930addict]

Do you look that bad?

[snowman]

Probably

[livi]

From a medical standpoint one can not necessarily judge the inside from looking at the outside.

That said I have followed Serge´s carrier for two decades. He is truly awesome and healthy looking at his age. Problem is he might be as close to a coronary life threatening event as anyone in his age group. To be able to sustain that perfect exterior he would of course have to be pretty healthy overall, but many essential parts of the body will not respond as much to training and healthy life style as the muscles.

For anyone having trained hard in the gym, he is obviously an extremely impressive sight though.

I believe nutrition and genetics is far more important for longevity than training muscles.

[Wrecked944]

Livi, what is your opinion of hormone replacement therapy for men? I have a Dr friend who thinks it is the best thing since sliced bread and shoots himself with test. As I said earlier, I find the use of 'roids to be a "first gen" technology and not really appropriate for general consumption. But everything I know about 'roids comes from my years as a bodybuilder and seeing other guys do freakish things to their bodies. So my knowledge base is limited and probably negatively biased. My doctor friend is using much smaller doses than bodybuilders and isn't using anything more exotic than straight test. He's convinced it is "safe" - or at least "relatively safe". But as I said, I come to it with a built in bias. So what's you take?

Oh and regarding Serge and the possibility of having a coronary event...I'd have to assume he is doing lots of aerobics and has to be eating a super healthy diet as well. Otherwise he'd never be able to have the abs and vascularity in the pics (again, speaking as a former gym rat who has BTDT). So wouldn't those things tend to strengthen his cardiovascular system and reduce his chances of having a bad coronary event?

I find that many people assume that bodybuilding is all about lifting weights. My personal experience, however, is that to excel at the sport as Serge has, you have to take a complete approach to your health. It is easy to gain weight. All you have to do is eat. But to gain lean muscle mass with the definition and sculpting of a guy like Serge, lifting weights is just the beginning. You also need to do a lot of cardio, eat a super healthy diet, get enough sleep, carefully monitor your fluids, spend a lot of time working on flexibility to avoid hurting your connective tissues, etc etc etc. I guess I assume everybody knows that. But obviously I'm wrong. Am I the only (former) bodybuilder on Pelican? Hmmm...

So that picture of Serge tells a complicated story. But I guess you'd have to be a bodybuilder to know that.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by JanusCole

I'd have to assume he is doing lots of aerobics and has to be eating a super healthy diet as well. Otherwise he'd never be able to have the abs and vascularity in the pics (again, speaking as a former gym rat who has BTDT).

But to gain lean muscle mass with the definition and sculpting of a guy like Serge, lifting weights is just the beginning. You also need to do a lot of cardio, eat a super healthy diet, get enough sleep, carefully monitor your fluids, spend a lot of time working on flexibility to avoid hurting your connective tissues, etc etc etc. I guess I assume everybody knows that. But obviously I'm wrong. Am I the only (former) bodybuilder on Pelican? Hmmm...

So that picture of Serge tells a complicated story. But I guess you'd have to be a bodybuilder to know that.

My brother is indeed a body builder(for well over a decade) and he would tell you that you are 100% incorrect (regarding cardio). This particular issue is one that he talks about all the time. I'll see if I can find some pics.