Lutz - we need more Hummers...

[widebody911]

Originally posted by jorian
A friend who lives in Calistoga bought 2 Range Rovers because of this loop hole. The tax saving meant the second one was free. The stipulation is weight not usage.

Well, he could have gone out, got two hummers, and then given you one...

[JavaBrewer]

Originally posted by nostatic
They are stupid because they are unnecesarily huge.

So size doesn't matter? You sound like you were once married...

[dd74]

Originally posted by nostatic
and so why were you taking me to task with the 911 reference?

They are stupid because they are unnecesarily huge.

Well, fuel economy is one facet of why some dislike the Hummer, and what I was suggesting is the 911 is known for fuel economy either, so we shouldn't criticize the Hummer in that vein.

But size-wise, yes, one of the Hummer's greatest issues is its size - not a problem with the 911.

[JavaBrewer]

With high bumbers and curb of 6000 lbs the issues are more about saftey of those sharing the roads than physical dimensions. Most roads and highways in the US are built to accomodate 18 wheelers and thus effectively swallow up H2s.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by dmoolenaar
With high bumbers and curb of 6000 lbs the issues are more about saftey of those sharing the roads than physical dimensions. Most roads and highways in the US are built to accomodate 18 wheelers and thus effectively swallow up H2s.

Ever see one fit in a parking spot? Of course plenty of the owners seem to think the H2 is a "compact" too...

[kaisen]

Hummers are the high-profile love-to-hate-them brand of poseur SUVs, but remember that there are many 'gross offenders' of other brands.

Toyota's FJ is within fractions of inches of the Hummer H3 and gets similar fuel economy. Neither will likely see any off-road duty, but both are truly capable.

But I don't see any FUFJ sites

[nostatic]

Originally posted by kaisen
Hummers are the high-profile love-to-hate-them brand of poseur SUVs, but remember that there are many 'gross offenders' of other brands.

Toyota's FJ is within fractions of inches of the Hummer H3 and gets similar fuel economy. Neither will likely see any off-road duty, but both are truly capable.

But I don't see any FUFJ sites

Not talking about the H3. Talking about the H2. The H1 is actually cool but has no business on public roads.

H2 still gets my vote as stupidest vehicle on the road today.

[dd74]

Originally posted by kaisen

But I don't see any FUFJ sites

Hmmm...good point. (Or should I say "Hummm").

Are you hinting at something political about the Hummer as is:

1) It's thought of as an American excess.
2) Inspired from American military (and all that goes with that these days)
3) A Schwarzenneger-endorsed product.

[dd74]

Originally posted by nostatic

H2 still gets my vote as stupidest vehicle on the road today.

I used to think the H2 as stupid. But I used to think of excessively loud Harleys as stupid. I've grown used to both of them.

One other thing about the H2: it's safe when vs. other cars/trucks/buses in some cases. I mean something that large has little choice but to be safe.

What I truly don't like about the H2 are the interior dimensions. IIRC, for the H2's size, it can only seat four or five people.

[kaisen]

Originally posted by dd74
Hmmm...good point. (Or should I say "Hummm").

Are you hinting at something political about the Hummer as is:

1) It's thought of as an American excess.
2) Inspired from American military (and all that goes with that these days)
3) A Schwarzenneger-endorsed product.

I think you nailed it.

And yes, the H2 only seats 5 where the slightly smaller Tahoe on which it is based can seat seven.

[nostatic]

it isn't political. It's about selfishness. The car is "safe" to the detriment of everyone else on the road. It is so big that it effectively takes up 2 or more parking spaces. And all this with little or no function relative to other more intelligently designed vehicles in its class. It is the epitome of the "me me me" mindset in this country.

You can at least make an argument that a 911, while getting not much better gas mileage, creates a much smaller footprint in the world. The H2 is about making the biggest footprint possible, with the least viable function. I think that's stupid. Ymmv.

And American excess isn't "political" in the con v. lib sense. It is, imho, a problem that cuts evenly across the aisle. It is political wrt our international standing though...

[kaisen]

Selfish and political - both. You're right, not D vs R, but American vs world. Maybe the H1/H2 embodies the American selfishness/right to foreign oil and protecting those rights through aggression.

Not exactly how I feel, but I see how liberal greenies try to make that connection.

E

[nostatic]

no, forget the gas part of the equation. It's about footprint. Making the biggest physical impact that you can. Taking up as much sapce as possible. The way of excess is viewed as the "American way" and is part of what is leading to the demise of the country. Probably the Buddhist in me, but I think that trying to find ways to have a little less physical impact on the world is a good thing. How about having a big intellectual or cultural or charitable impact on the world?

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by nostatic
no, forget the gas part of the equation. It's about footprint. Making the biggest physical impact that you can. Taking up as much sapce as possible. The way of excess is viewed as the "American way" and is part of what is leading to the demise of the country. Probably the Buddhist in me, but I think that trying to find ways to have a little less physical impact on the world is a good thing. How about having a big intellectual or cultural or charitable impact on the world?

How about making your own personal decisions and letting others make theirs? If you think you can demonstrate any actual damages (beyond offending your self-proclaimed intellectual ideals) then I suggest you sue them off the road. Best of luck.

Be careful though, you may offend the rest of us with your wasteful million dollar homes in the California hills. In the end it's all about what I think YOU need

[nostatic]

Originally posted by lendaddy
How about making your own personal decisions and letting others make theirs? If you think you can demonstrate any actual damages (beyond offending your self-proclaimed intellectual ideals) then I suggest you sue them off the road. Best of luck.

People do make their own decisions. And I'm free to say I think they are stupid. You don't see me slashing their tires or trying to litigate them out of existence. Just stating an opinion and trying to explain what is behind it.

Don't get so testy. You don't own an H2, do you?

I still maintain it would be nice if people actually stopped and thought once in awhile about their impact on others around them...

[kaisen]

California is doing just that - suing the automakers for their gross contribution to global warming.

Size can't be the issue. And if it isn't gas or environment then why the fuss?

[nostatic]

Originally posted by lendaddy


Be careful though, you may offend the rest of us with your wasteful million dollar homes in the California hills. In the end it's all about what I think YOU need

I live in a kind of crappy apartment about 4 blocks from the 405 freeway.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by kaisen
California is doing just that - suing the automakers for their gross contribution to global warming.

Size can't be the issue. And if it isn't gas or environment then why the fuss?

Last time I checked i wasn't California. I was born here and live here, yes. But I'm not the state.

To *me* size is an issue. Gas and the environment are issues too, but again, less from a gas mileage perspective and more from an overall impact. Ymmv.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by nostatic
People do make their own decisions. And I'm free to say I think they are stupid. You don't see me slashing their tires or trying to litigate them out of existence. Just stating an opinion and trying to explain what is behind it.

Don't get so testy. You don't own an H2, do you?

I still maintain it would be nice if people actually stopped and thought once in awhile about their impact on others around them...

No I don't, but I guess I would if I could afford one. My wife likes the H3 (which is really just a little 5cyl mini SUV).

The smugness is what gets me I guess. But without smug the Prius would have no means of motivation

[kaisen]

The people of California vote. The politicians they voted into office are suing