put the guy in any African nation for a week and see how long it takes him to cry for the US Government to come get him.

No, that's not true. I'd be much more comfortable.

Talk about unrealistic statement, that's one of the worst. I'm right where I want to be. It's not perfect, but it's pretty close. A few rough edges to polish off, a few taxes to kill, and illegals to run out.

How can someone be "illegal" if there is no government to so declare?

I thought "legal" and "illegal" were constructs of the government, acting throught the legislature and the courts ... You need to bone up on Anarchy 101, old man :)

Hmmm...somehow I bet "Patville" won't even have public libraries, but will have a police force made up of eunicks. Oh, and nurses...yes, nurses with hairy legs.

Okay, I'm joking about the nurse part. SmileWavy

No, that's incorrect.

Quote:

I thought "legal" and "illegal" were constructs of the government, acting throught the legislature and the courts ... You need to bone up on Anarchy 101, old man :)

No, "legal" and "illegal" are not constructs of government. We currently hire government to enforce laws taken from common law. We don't need government to do that. For example, murder isn't against the law because government exists.

It won't be "made up", it will reflect the wishes of those living in it.

The main issue here is that you're so deeply immersed in the "need for government" you can't imagine it not existing. What we have today in America, is largely a construct of the late 19th and entire 20th century. Before that, there was almost no federal government at all. Almost all government was local, and to a limited extent, the states.

On the contrary, I can imagine life without govt. The question is can govt imagine life without its citizens? In reality, govt needs us, and isn't willing at all to give us up so easily.

That is correct. While it's dying, and it is, the US government will be at it's nastiest, which is much worse than now. However, the seeds of that future awfulness have already been put into play now. The recent laws passed are the seeds.

Which recent laws?

You do not live in a bubble nor are you self-sufficient. You use the net, watch TV, and listen to the radio (hello FCC). You may not like it but without it, you would not be able to use those toys. Government.

You eat food bought at a store? Hello USDA and FDA. Government.

You drive? You breathe? You use public facilities. You fly? Shall I continue? Someone breaks the law and steals from you or worse - you could take matters into your own hands but that would wind you up in jail. You work right? Heck dude, the gov is there big time.

Lastly, you are a medical prof., you’re telling me that you could do your job in the US if you rejected the gov and struck out on your own? That doc you work for would not keep you around with out your board certs.

You say you do not use the gov or need it but your life is so tangled in gov affairs you have no choice. And that’s just the tip. I think what pisses you off is the fact that you don't have a choice. None of us do but try to do all the things you do with out all the agencies and bureaucracy. It may seem cumbersome but I guarantee that in a few short weeks without any of that stuff, the drugs to take to the food you eat to the air you breathe to the neighbor that is better armed than you will make life awful ruff on a 50+ yr old. I'd give you 6 days in Darfur! That’s what it would be like.

Wait...I hear a song in this...
Every breath you take...every move you make...I'll be watching you... :D

I like turkey jerky.

I wish somebody cared enough to want to know what I did 24/7!:D

LOL! And be scarred for life? I wouldn't wish that on my most hated enemy.

Pat, ignore the haters. I like your plan. I doubt you'll get 100% independent from the feds but it is a worthy effort, nonetheless.

So may I ask a few questions about your government?

1) How are you handling basic services like garbage and roads? As I said earlier, I have had good experiences with a condo association that handled daily services better than the local government. Well, at least the services were better - the association was not.

2) Do you and your neighbors have a formalized structure? Do you make decisions by consensus or majority vote? Seems like a small thing but it makes a big difference.

3) How do you and the neighbors handle disputes? Do you have a mutually binding system or do you go directly to firearms (not that there's anything wrong with that ;))?

4) How connected are you to the feds and do you have plans or ideas for improving your independence? For instance, do you still have to participate in green back commerce like buying food and clothing? Being truly self-sufficient would be a giant PITA - but it might be worth the effort to break free ofthe feds. May I ask how far you've gone down that path?

And of course we know that if it is "against the law" no one would ever do that. A "law" is only as strong as the ability to enforce it. If someone breaks the law in your domain and escapes, do you have a rendition agreement or are they home free? Just out of curiosity, you did mention you have a lot of nice vehicles right? How strong is the "law" in your little Fiefdom, Confederacy, or whatever fantasy your strokin' to?

If I may...

Ability to enforce is good...willingness to enforce is best.
.
Thx.

That's an interesting concept. The notion that government and laws are not related. And it's consistent with Pat's other ideas.

How does one get to be an "illegal alien" if there is no government?

Indeed, how does one get to be an "alien?" I thought boundaries were defined by governments ... I didn't realize they were naturally occurring.

Maybe anybody that lives further away than the post office where you pick up your government check automatically becomes an alien in Pat's world :)