Honor in the military?

[widgeon13]

I was deeply offended by comments made by Fastpaste in the last 24 hours regarding honorable people and military careers.

He will no longer get my attention. I will not read his posts. As far as I'm concerned the man no longer exists. An explanation of my position is unnecesary, read between the lines.

For the rest of you, do as you please but that's it for me. I know what is right and wrong and honorable and dishonorable. This man has no concept of either.

The End

[VINMAN]

+1

Refuse to even read his posts anymore. Nothing worse than someone who reaps the benefits of something he hates and constantly criticizes. F#*king hypocrite!

[fastpat]

You want a military that's honorable then stop sending them off to fight wars of choice, killing hundreds of thousands of people in foreign lands, for no other reason than there's no one to stop them.

As far as reading my posts, in the case of the two of you, I'd say "pearls before swine", a biblical quote, is appropriate.

[rcecale]

Originally posted by fastpat
You want a military that's honorable then stop sending them off to fight wars of choice, killing hundreds of thousands of people in foreign lands, for no other reason than there's no one to stop them.

Perhaps pat has a point... Why join the military to "kill hundreds of thousands of people in foreign lands, for no other reasons than there's no one to stop you" when you can become a male nurse like pat and do your killing and other deviant acts in the comfort of your own home?

MALE NURSE ACCUSED OF SEXUAL BATTERY ON HELPLESS PATIENT

MALE NURSE ARRESTED OVER 4 DEATH IN LEEDS HOSPITAL

GERMAN MALE NURSE ADMITS TO MULTIOPLE KILLINGS


FINGERPRINTS TIE GAY MALE NURSE TO GAY MEN'S BODY PARTS

MALE CANCER NURSE ARRESTED ON CHILD PORN CHARGES ONCE WORKED IN DAY CARE

You can read about further antics of pat and his freaky friends in this thread.

Geeze, pat, you secessionist male nurses are truly a sick bunch of freaks!

Randy

[Dottore]

Honor in the military?

Fastpat expressed his views on this very harshly.

Equally, though, the view that being in the military is somehow honorable in and of itself is nonsense.

The issue becomes particularly problematic when you are fighting in the wrong war, and are just the instrument of a corrupt and misguided administration.

I think many here confuse honor with valor. There can be much valor in serving under any circumstances - but honor? The really depends.

[aap1966]

Guys,
He (Fastpat) is a troll.
He would argue night is day just to get a rise out of someone.
Ignore him (as I too will do henceforth) and he will go away.
Aggravation is oxygen to him.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Dottore
Honor in the military?

Fastpat expressed his views on this very harshly.

Equally, though, the view that being in the military is somehow honorable in and of itself is nonsense.

The issue becomes particularly problematic when you are fighting in the wrong war, and are just the instrument of a corrupt and misguided administration.

I think many here confuse honor with valor. There can be much valor in serving under any circumstances - but honor? The really depends.

Exactly my point. This "honor" of servicemen by other or former servicemen is well and truly passed self serving, and as one who was in the military during the Vietnam experience, I know full well that it's much worse during those times when the citizens of the country don't want the military doing what it is doing.

[CRH911S]

Perhaps pat has a point... Why join the military to "kill hundreds of thousands of people in foreign lands, for no other reasons than there's no one to stop you" when you can become a male nurse like pat and do your killing and other deviant acts in the comfort of your own home?

Well Randy nothing like stepping in it? What is honorable about the Marines that shot and killed an innocent Iraqi male then placed a shovel in his dead hands and then created the story that he was planting IED's in the road? Or what about the grunts that brutally raped a young Iraqi girl and then shot her in the head? Are these sadistic incidents examples of the honor you so staunchly defend? Of course not.

I said, roughly two years ago in this OT BB, that the military as a peer group, is a poor point of reference for young males. Your reference to male nurses doesn't surprise me and only buttresses my statement.

Clinton

[fastpat]

Originally posted by CRH911S


Well Randy nothing like stepping in it? What is honorable about the Marines that shot and killed an innocent Iraqi male then placed a shovel in his dead hands and then created the story that he was planting IED's in the road? Or what about the grunts that brutally raped a young Iraqi girl and then shot her in the head? Are these sadistic incidents examples of the honor you so staunchly defend? Of course not.

I said, roughly two years ago in this OT BB, that the military as a peer group, is a poor point of reference for young males. Your reference to male nurses doesn't surprise me and only buttresses my statement.

Clinton

Indeed, particularly since doctor's, male and female, kill more patients than all the nurses added together for years and years. None of which is relevant to this subject.

And yes, Randy merely buttress the answer to the question with his post. And, more sadly, he neither knows how or why.

[stuartj]

The military is a sacred cow. Might as well defend a pedophile as point to the institutional black heart of the US military in the United States of Nationalism. In fact, as has been recently demostrated, its better to be a Republican pedophile than an unpatriotic, Murica hating critic of Our Boys Over There.

[CRH911S]

MSNBC.com


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Report: Navy lawyer denied promotion
Swift led successful Supreme Court challenge of military tribunals
The Associated Press


Updated: 3:29 p.m. AKT Oct 8, 2006
MIAMI - The Navy lawyer who led a successful Supreme Court challenge of the Bush administration’s military tribunals for detainees at Guantanamo Bay has been passed over for promotion and will have to leave the military, The Miami Herald reported Sunday.

Lt. Cmdr. Charles Swift, 44, will retire in March or April under the military’s “up or out” promotion system. Swift said last week he was notified he would not be promoted to commander.

He said the notification came about two weeks after the Supreme Court sided with him and against the White House in the case involving Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a Yemeni who was Osama bin Laden’s driver.

“It was a pleasure to serve,” Swift told the newspaper. He added he would have defended Hamdan even if he had known it would cut short his Navy career.

“All I ever wanted was to make a difference — and in that sense I think my career and personal satisfaction has been beyond my dreams,” Swift said.

The Pentagon had no comment Sunday.

A graduate of the University of Seattle School of Law, Swift plans to continue defending Hamdan as a civilian.

‘Quite a coincidence’
The 36-year-old Hamdan was captured along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan while fleeing the U.S. invasion that was a response to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Hamdan has acknowledged that bin Laden paid him $200 a month as his driver on a Kandahar farm, but he says he never joined al-Qaida or engaged in military fighting.

Hamdan turned to civilian courts to challenge the constitutionality of his war-crimes trial, a case that eventually led the Supreme Court to rule that President Bush had outstripped his authority when he created ad hoc military tribunals for prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Swift’s supervisor said he served with distinction.

“Charlie has obviously done an exceptional job, a really extraordinary job,” said Marine Col. Dwight Sullivan, the Pentagon’s chief defense counsel for Military Commissions. He added it was “quite a coincidence” that Swift was passed over for a promotion “within two weeks of the Supreme Court opinion.”

‘Unrequited love’
Washington, D.C., attorney Eugene Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice, said Swift was “a no-brainer for promotion.” Swift joins many other distinguished Navy officers over the years who have seen their careers end prematurely, Fidell said.

“He brought real credit to the Navy,” Fidell said. “It’s too bad that it’s unrequited love.”

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15189555/


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© 2006 MSNBC.com

Honor?

Clinton

[stuartj]

One wonders about the future of Maj Mori, USMC, who has mounted a most vigorous defence on behalf of David Hicks, resident of Guantanomo Bay.

When one says honor in military- there are certainly honorable individuals in the military. Maj Mori, for example. But there would be few institutions as duplictous and self serving as the US military.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by stuartj
One wonders about the future of Maj Mori, USMC, who has mounted a most vigorous defence on behalf of David Hicks, resident of Guantanomo Bay.

When one says honor in military- there are certainly honorable individuals in the military. Maj Mori, for example. But there would be few institutions as duplictous and self serving as the US military.

Only one, the US government, and then all other governments on the planet.

[gaijindabe]

Everyone has a right to their opinions, this is OT after all..

A marketplace of ideas - and you aint got to buy a thing. And you might pick up a few freebies along the way..

[Moneyguy1]

There are honorable individuals in any "line of work" and there are those who are less than honorable. Why would the military be any different?

Just curious as to the logic that once an individual dons a specific uniform he or she is automatically "honorable".

Every individual must be judged by his or her own actions, not those of the group.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Bob,

I agree with you. There are degrees of honour in any profession.

Oh, and as former Military, I'd say I met a MUCH HIGHER percentage of persons with honour in the military than outside of it!!!

Oh, and pat is the second person on my ignore list.

[CRH911S]

There is more than one way to preserve and protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights-honorably. It's unfortunate for those that think they are the only ones, subject to having worn a military uniform, to define the term for everyone else. What may be honor for some can be seen as shame by others. Look no further than what the Corps did to Swift.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by CRH911S
There is more than one way to preserve and protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights-honorably. It's unfortunate for those that think they are the only ones, subject to having worn a military uniform, to define the term for everyone else. What may be honor for some can be seen as shame by others. Look no further than what the Corps did to Swift.

In approximately 1996, the US Army again refused to reopen the case of Dr. Samuel Mudd who was tried by illegal military tribunal, and found guilty and sentence to years of imprisonment at Fort Jefferson. It has been well and truly shown that he had no involvement beyond treating John Booth's broken leg. The family requested that the case be reopened to clear Mudd's name. That's a most dishonorable act, to keep a dishonorable act in place.

We, of course, have the team of Sherman and Sheridan planning the complete annilhilation of the plains indians, and then carrying out those plans.

Then there's the illegal occupation of the Philipines; killing at least 4200 US government troops, 16,000 so-called rebels, and 200,000 civilians.

The list is long, and not honorable.

[Eric 951]

Gotta love Sherman and Sheridan--2 of the best at what they did....kick ass for the government.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by CRH911S
MSNBC.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Report: Navy lawyer denied promotion
Swift led successful Supreme Court challenge of military tribunals
The Associated Press


Updated: 3:29 p.m. AKT Oct 8, 2006
MIAMI - The Navy lawyer who led a successful Supreme Court challenge of the Bush administration’s military tribunals for detainees at Guantanamo Bay has been passed over for promotion and will have to leave the military, The Miami Herald reported Sunday.

Lt. Cmdr. Charles Swift, 44, will retire in March or April under the military’s “up or out” promotion system. Swift said last week he was notified he would not be promoted to commander.

....Honor?

Clinton

Clinton, as you know..only a tiny percentage of officers make 0-6. Why would you assume the article's premise is correct...that it was some sort of dishonorable thing? Clearly if his being "passed over" for promotion results in his "leaving" under the "up and out" system...it is not his first passover and this time since he was already "passed over"...his chances were almost zero. Do you think they should provide him some sort of extra promotion opportunity or bend the rules for him simply because he defends terrorists? There are plentry of other officers to do that if necessary.