Driving a car Vs. Flying a Private plane

[Jims5543]

I got into an argument last night with my dad. I am toying with getting my private pilots license and going partners on a private plane in the next couple of years.

Actually flip that, plane 1st then license = less cost taking lessons.

My dad flipped out and told me small planes are too dangerous and I was risking my families life flying them in one.

I did not have access to statistics but I told him the probability of me getting in a car accident far exceeded my chances of a plane accident.

I worked as a lineman at a small airfield on Long Island when I was a teen and knew of 2 accidents that killed people, one an entire family the other an individual.

In both cases I knew the pilots and they had it coming. One was a cheapskate and went down in the Atlantic killing his family because he did not refuel before comng back to the airport. He hit a strong headwind and ran out of gas. All to save a few bucks at a more expensive airfield refeuling.

Am I off base here, is flying a small plane back and forth to North Carolina from Florida a few times a year more risky than driving the same?

[motion]

I have .02 to add here, and I'm sure the pilots will chime in as well. I went through these same questions when I was going through my private pilot lessons as well. Bottom line is that mistakes kill pilots, usually not weather, mechanical malfunctions, etc. Most times, an error in judgement results in a situation which is difficult to recover from. IMHO it is a very safe activity if given the proper amount of preparation and respect.

[Jims5543]

I flew with a good friend to his vacation house in the Abaco Island chain of the Bahamas.

He has a 6 seat Cherokee its older, like a '75 but very well taken care of and up to date.

Like I said, I grew up around planes. I know a good pilot when I see one.

My friends preflight check was a textbook one. (Everyone should be but, I have seen many who do not do it properly and I think to myself they are a waiting statistic.)

He even pulls out his preflight manual and goes through the checklist, step by step. He has been flying for close to 30 years. I cannot explress how impressed I was that he actually pulls out the manual to this day.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Motion has it.

Speaking as a guy that has over 3,000 hours in "small planes" and worked as a CFI for a couple of years, I can assure you it's as safe or as dangerous as you care to make it. I would absolutely get the best quality (read: NOT CHEAPEST) instruction you can find and be willing to put in your homework to learn the regulations, weather/meterology, etc. Your prospective instructors will get into this with you more as you shop around.

Any place that tells you, "we can get you your Private Pilot Certificate in 40 hours" is full of it. Run (don't walk) away. Realistically it takes more on the order of 60-70 hours.

Once you've obtained your PPL, I strongly urge you to pursue your instrument rating. The statistics for survival indicate a marked increase among those pilots holding an instrument rating versus those with a VFR-only PPL. It's also some damn fun flying - you'll learn a lot and it'll do wonders for your confidence, precision and judgement/decision-making skills.

What Motion said is basically all correct, just figured I'd expand on it a little. Shop around, set a realistic timetable and budget and find a CFI that'll work WITH you as an individual to attain YOUR goals, not a mill that'll crank you through based on THEIR goals (I could give the names of a few such "flight school factories" here, but I'll hold off for now). There are exceptions too - just because a school/academy is large or franchised doesn't automatically make it bad - just some have better reputations than others.

Best of luck! I hope you pursue it and find it enjoyable!



I'll share with you this little bit of advice I used to bestow upon people when they asked "how do I know if I'm financially ready to take flying lessons"?

I'd look them right in the eye and say "reach into your wallet and pull out a brand-new, crisp $100 bill. Light it. When you can do that without flinching, you're ready."

Best of luck!

[charleskieffner]

if you think attention to detail is critical on your p-car , multiply that by a 100 w/a plane. have crashed in plane and it aint fun. traced back to A&P mechanic by NTSB and FAA. same plane went down again in baja..........yep traced back to A&P mechanic. soooooooooo my advice to you working at an airport,and involved w/planes.............DONT TRUST NOBODY! if you want it done, do it yourself. do not rely on "yes i checked that". check it yourself! DO NOT BE LAZY DO NOT BE CHEAP. get 3 opinions not just one. go by the book. do not rush. buy a pair of safety wire pliers. buy a 5 gallon drum of loctite. just picture a dirt bike with wings...........sooner or later something falls off. problem is w/a plane you cant get out and fix it! if anyone here wants to dispute my claim about items falling off...............PLEASE COME BY SKYRANCH AIRPORT AND VIEW OUR FOD COLLECTION! fod= foreign objects debris. I REFUSE TO GET IN A EXPERIMENTAL!

the last time i got in a plane was with the senior SWA pilot here in phx. he had a gazillion hours of fixed wing and equal in rotarys over vietnam, and a bazillion hours in 737's. it is a life and death situation everytime you get behind the stick. treat it as such,and you will enjoy it.

file a flight plan and have a EPIRB!

read every NTSB/FAA crash incident file and the majority are small mistakes made that multiply until it becomes catastrophic. one of our company pilots was lost earlier this year over the northern sierras doing aerobatics in his citabria. and he was the ALASKAN PILOT PERSONIFIED. grew up there, seaplane float/ski-rated. he was a very good pilot and i trusted him and his abilities. he is sorely missed.

and if i ever catch you yakking on your cell phone next to plane, while fueling your plane(STATIC)!!! , I WILL HAVE YOUR A$$! ask me how i know!

WTB port strut(landing gear) from fuselage to wheel spindle for 1960 DORNIER (dorn-yay) DO-27. must hold hydraulic fluid and nitrogen.

[Moses]

Years ago, rough actuarial studies indicated that your risk of death (per mile traveled) was 10 times greater in a small plane than in a car, and a commercial airliner is 10 times safer than a car. Very rough, numbers-wise, but you get the idea.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by Moses
Years ago, rough actuarial studies indicated that your risk of death (per mile traveled) was 10 times greater in a small plane than in a car, and a commercial airliner is 10 times safer than a car. Very rough, numbers-wise, but you get the idea.

Whoa! I would have argued otherwise.

That is very interesting. I knew about the commercial being very safe I dod not know small aircraft was greater than a car. Wow!

[Porsche-O-Phile]

That's also based on a lot smaller sample size.

There are still an awful lot of "cowboy" pilots out there - particularly the weekend-only types, who I'm sure influence those stats considerably. Treat it with the respect it deserves and use your head and you'll avoid being a statistic.

"Continued VFR flight into instrument meterological conditions". Learn what that means, memorize it, and don't succumb to it. If you do that and can eliminate that single source of potential problems/accidents, your odds of survival will be HUGELY increased. It boils down to judgement.

[jorian]

Motion and Jeff are on it. Quality instruction and common sense are the first line of defense against preventable pilot error incidents.

My father got his license 40 years ago and is as diligent now as he was then. I got mine in 83' and have always respected the aircraft and the routine neccessary to ensure I get home safely.

Pushing a car to its limits on the track is rewarding but in the air the performance envelope should never be approached let alone tested.

IMO the most important part of the training is learning how to identify potentially hazardous situations and knowing how to deal with them if you need to. I've always marvelled at how your own world shrinks when you can fly there yourself. In the air you have to maintain a much higher level of awareness than you do in a car. The old cliche applies: There are old pilots and bold pilots but, there are no old bold pilots.

[TheMentat]

Originally posted by Moses
Years ago, rough actuarial studies indicated that your risk of death (per mile traveled) was 10 times greater in a small plane than in a car, and a commercial airliner is 10 times safer than a car. Very rough, numbers-wise, but you get the idea.

Jim,
I'm just getting started on a private, with the intent of getting my instrument rating. My father and I faced similar objections from my mother when we first got the ball rolling on this. I have an interesting article that supports Moses's quote that my mom was brandishing while raising her objections. (in .pdf - the link seems to be dead now... I can forward it to you if you have an email.)

My justification is as follows:
A HUGE percentage of fatalities are due to pilot error, just like in autos. However, in a car you can exercise a great deal of caution, only to be smoked by some oncoming car swerving into your lane. Whereas, in a plane you have alot more control over the risks you face. By exercising good judgment, conservatism in your go-no go decisions, and by taking your education very seriously, you will DRAMATICALLY improve the odds YOU face. As Porsche-O-Phile said, there's alot of cowboys out there that skew the odds (much like with motorcycles).

[Tim Hancock]

Jim, I feel safer flying a small single engine airplane in my part of the country (farm fields mainly) provided I am flying in DAY VFR conditions. If the engine ever quits, one has options. I myself, get nervous flying over water, over vast wooded/hilly areas, flying anywhere at night or in marginal weather when in a single engine airplane. If one avoids the above scenarios that all lead to bad juju if the engine quits, flying is very safe.

If you plan to attain your private for the SOLE purpose of commuting over long cross country flights, forget it. Weather will get in the way. An instrument rating would help, but you would still be over the mountains/trees, in the clouds with only one engine (unless you are made of money).

[the]

I agree with Moses and Tim.

There's no way "per miles traveled" that a small single engine private plane is anywhere near as statistically safe as a car, as Moses' post suggests.

And Tim's post is right on.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

If an engine quits, you just start the other one.

[motion]

Tim, in keeping with what you are saying, I think its great to have a IFR rating, but I feel that it should only be used if you simply MUST use it. Flying at night, through weather, etc. is very risky even under the best situations. I may be wrong about that, but then again I am certainly not an experienced pilot, or even a pilot for that matter. I flew between Las Vegas and Chino in a friend's Bonanza at night a couple years ago... I've never been more afraid in my life... and I'll do just about anything

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by motion
Tim, in keeping with what you are saying, I think its great to have a IFR rating, but I feel that it should only be used if you simply MUST use it. Flying at night, through weather, etc. is very risky even under the best situations. I may be wrong about that, but then again I am certainly not an experienced pilot, or even a pilot for that matter. I flew between Las Vegas and Chino in a friend's Bonanza at night a couple years ago... I've never been more afraid in my life... and I'll do just about anything

We flew back to Florida from the Bahamas in a Aztec through a tropical wave. My friend was not far behind in his 6 seat single. There were 10 of us at his house and the wave kicked up and trapped us there for 3 extra days. It was parked over the east coast of Florida.

We got up early on a Monday morning and checked the radar and it was showing us a big enough break to take a shot at crossing back.

My wife and I and another couple chartered the Aztec and Flew to West Palm Beach my friend was 20 minuted behind us. We had clear weather all the way across, but, we had to do a lot of zig zagging to miss big thunderheads. It was a maximum pucker situation.

BTW- I had the clear the same customs that Rush got busted in. They tore through every bit of my luggage not digging my "look".

I will look into this but, honestly some of your comments have influenced me that this may not be the greatest idea. It is a long trip and I could encounter some nasty weather. Both the NC mountains and Florida are famous for their quick changing weather.

[TheMentat]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
If an engine quits, you just start the other one.

As some of the more cynical would say, the reason why alot of multi-engined planes have more than one engine is that they need them. The second one is only good for getting you to the scene of the accident

[jorian]

IFR ratings in Canada must be kept current. Unless you fly for a living or have a big budget an IFR ticket is cost prohibitive.

The most enjoyable flying I have done is within 100 miles of ny home in VFR conditions.

[Hendog]

That is, how old is to old to start down the road of getting your PPL? This would be an opinion, no doubt, but let's hear it.

[TheMentat]

Originally posted by Hendog
That is, how old is to old to start down the road of getting your PPL? This would be an opinion, no doubt, but let's hear it.

I would argue that it is more a question of mental acuity than age...

[TheMentat]

Found the aforementioned article:

http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/safety