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Black and Blue
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Austin, TX USA - Ya'll
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So is it politically incorrect to have a Cross in a Chapel?
Now here is an interesting story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,230612,00.html
in Hampton Roads, Va. reports that officials at the College of William and Mary have removed a gold cross from a campus chapel in the spirit of diversity and to make the chapel more "welcoming to all." Just think, all those co-eds that used to hang out in the chapel have got to feel so much better now that they dont have to see that horrible Cross up there. 
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11-20-2006, 07:40 AM
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just nonsense. leave the cross there, it's a historical church
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11-20-2006, 07:48 AM
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Incredibly stupid. What responsibility does a church have to be "more welcoming"? NONE. Next thing they'll sue the Vatican to perform mass in Arabic.
Has the entire world lost their minds?
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11-20-2006, 08:26 AM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: N. Phoenix AZ USA
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Here in England a woman just lost a lawsuit. She now has to remove the cross hanging on a necklace around her neck.
She works at Heathrow airport and the ass bosses feel that its better this way... Stupid frigging laws... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/6165368.stm
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11-20-2006, 09:23 AM
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Two theories at work here when this issue comes up.
The first - as an overt symbol of one religion it might make folks of other religions uncomfortable. Most people say that is just denying the reality of the schools tradition, present make-up and the fact of that is what you get when you walk into a chapel. The second - is that for many taking part in the Christian tradition today - the cross and the crucifixion of Jesus Christ is something they would rather not dwell on or be reminded of. So #1 is the usual argument - but #2 might be the real reason. The Japanese would explain this as "tatemae" and "honne". The first being the façade and the second being true feelings. Take your pick… |
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11-20-2006, 09:25 AM
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Gaijindabe;
Could you explain #2 some more? I haven't run into too many people like that -- even up here in relatively secular New England. But then I may just not be in the right places. The only exception would be the Unitarians, but it's not clear to me if even they would consider themselves "Christian" given their discarding of the Apostle's Creed, Nicean Creed and other aspects of traditional Christianity. But on the other hand, it's not uncommon for Churches to be de-sanctified, and then become just secular buildings. I've seen former churches become apartments, offices and other things. So if William and Mary have chosen to do this with the space, it's their property. As long as the students have access to the variety of religious choices nearby -- Churches of various denominations, Temple(s), Mosques, etc, I don't see why it is such a big deal.
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11-20-2006, 09:31 AM
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Can't explain it any more than that. Not that the Cross is discarded - it just might not be as important. Just an unlearned theory of mine. Maybe too much time in relatively secular New York? Maybe too much time in Japan where the reason given for anything is rarely the real reason. I mean were other groups at the door of the chapel clamoring for changes? I doubt it. Athists and whatnot? They don't have a dog in this fight - it is a chapel after all. So why do such a thing? Why indeed..?
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11-20-2006, 09:48 AM
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Just to muddy the waters a bit more, in the bible God gave very clear instructions that we are not to worship false idols, not to make idols out of gold, and that we are to worship only him, nothing else. He said it several times and it was one of the original 10.
Yet Lots o'christians worship a gold cross, any number of saints, the virgin Mary, even a man who is elected to the position of pope. The list goes on and on depending on which version of christianity you are looking at. There are relics that are prayed to, things like a challis, a sword, a spear tip, skeletons, and that is just in the Vatican. People pray to a church that some believe is built on the sight of Christ's tomb. How about those mixed up folks who pray to a grill cheese sandwich or a shadow or anything else that can be said to resemble an image of the Virgin Mary? Somehow I don't think God would approve. Since Jesus was an extension of God in the form of a man I do not have a problem at all with worshipping him, it's all that other stuff I don't think is right. So in an bassackwards way, removing the cross may be the right thing to do according to the bible. I know, some of you will say that I'm taking it too literally, maybe I am. But until someone changes my mind I will continue to pray to God and Jesus, no one else, no other idols. Oh, and back to the original issue: Greed. Pure unadulterated greed. There are lots of students from otehr paerts of this world who study in this country. Most of them have lots of money to spend. Many of them are muslim. This college is selling out in an attempt to increase profits by attracting the money of non-christian students. It is very, very clear. Last edited by sammyg2; 11-20-2006 at 10:17 AM.. |
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11-20-2006, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
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11-20-2006, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
See post above. |
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11-20-2006, 11:40 AM
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11-20-2006, 11:41 AM
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I think Sammy nailed it.
Troy
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11-20-2006, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
For a point of reference, William and Mary is the second oldest university in America. Only Harvard is older. I am a '71 graduate, my wife and I were married in the chapel in question, and our daughter was also married there 18 months ago. Personally I think the College may have mistakenly picked a very PC new president in Gene Nichol. In less than a year on the job now this is his 2nd PC move. The first was to roll over and play dead when the NCAA told the school to remove "feathers" from the logo because it may be offensive to Native Americans. Never mind that in the early '90's the athletic director sought out the local Native Americans and at their suggestion the school dropped the old logo (pretty much the same as the old Cleveland Indians) and replaced it with the feathers. Everyone was happy at that point. As for the NCAA, note that they didn't say anything to the University of Utah who has a very similar logo. They probably generate too much money while W&M simply graduates their athletes at one of the highest rates of all NCAA members. Don't mess with the money! The NCAA did go after North Dakota (another 1-AA school) but they promptly turned around and got a TRO telling the NCAA to kiss off. And now we have the cross being removed from the chapel. You can read more about this here: http://www.savethewrencross.org . President Nichol is off to a real bad start with both students and alumni from which he may not recover.
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11-20-2006, 01:41 PM
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11-20-2006, 01:55 PM
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11-20-2006, 02:02 PM
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