Boils down to what type of society you're happy with .. one that tries it's best to look after each other or a more dog eat dog one where the strong survive and get rich and the weak fend for themselves. The Europeans and to a somewhat lesser extent the Canadians take a more social outlook.

John I don't know were you live but without the government contracts Boeing would have been long gone...
Limbaugh admitted he was carrying water for the reps.THe government doesn't spew the proaganda it is the corporations that own the media,TV and radio outlets and the loobyists that play the politicians as their muppets who spew the propaganda.Same B.S. and same system as in the U.S.S.R only that not the party but a few corporate big wigs run the show and ream the profits...
Most patents maybe but then they get build in china, taiwan or india and the american worker and population sees nothing...They are only deemed as consumers of "cheap" foreign goods if they can still find a job that pays a little and has a few benefits...
Chris
PS:But anyways let's tal guns;the french make the best revolvers!Manurhin...S&W and Colt is only schitt compared to Korth or Manurhin...;-)

Well said,Dan!
Chris

wow, let's start with this spectacular display of ahistorical ignorance. i guess i missed the part of the movie where the nazis give anne frank a revolver before hauling her off to the death camp.

"death caused by guns" shows the primitive level of understanding. in the middle ages, if a bridge collapsed and killed several people, they would put the bridge on trial. sometimes, symbolicly executing it. inanimate objects don't kill people. how many times must this be repeated?

if you look at a county by county study of the united states, you'll find that gun ownership and violent crime are inversely proportionate. no one disputes this. if guns were the problem, iowa should be a killing field.

the europeans are catching up to our levels of violence. assault, home invasion, rape, etc, are all on the rise. despite the loving government, gun control, and pot. google "interpol crime statisics" sometime.


dinner is ready, we'll have to continue this tomorrow. assuming the thread is still here.

No they gave Anne Frank a ball point pen to write her diaries even if the ball point pen was invented and marketed for the first time in the 1950's...;-) Don't let your dinner get cold...
Chris

:)

Why do so many bring a knife ...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1164426519.jpg

... to a gun fight?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1164426600.jpg

Oh my, what have I started?I was just proud that my father bought me a new toy.As far as I can remember, I have been around firearms all my life.Never have I encountered a problem.It comes down to parents acting responsibly.Yes Europeans have certain rights that we don't.But all societies have the + and - factor.This has been a learning curve for me, before this post I never invisioned the gulf between pro and con people when discussing firearms.Oh well, each to his or her own.....

be wary, there are strong feeling on both sides

Totally wrong. I am very familiar with Boeing, and am talking their commercial division, which is where they compete with Airbus. Yes, they also bid on and win military contracts as an independent contractor, but they are not owned and/or subsidized by government(s).

That's absolutely true, Dan, and it can be scary, but more people are strong and long for that opportuntiy than one might assume in the abstract. Allowing people to realize their potential is real freedom (this was in response to what freedom does America have over other nations), and also yields a much higher productivity on average, which raises the tide for all boats.

i already have a mommy to look after me. don't need a government showing the same level of interest, or control over my life.




how can you judge the quality of a weapon that has never been fired? do they handle being dropped better?



i grew up in the extremely rural midwest. guns were everywhere. once in a while some hunter would blow his foot off. but there was nothing that could be called gun violence. countless drunken fist fights, and one axe murder, but no gun violence.

got a bolt action mauser for my tenth birthday. bagged my first deer not long after. guns were about hunting, the whole self defense issue didn't really factor in my mind til i came out here.

i moved to los angeles about three weeks before the riots. anybody remember them? smoke rising in every direction, and thugs stoning the fire trucks. after the first few hours the police and fire abandoned my neighborhood. it was a long 48 hours before the guard showed up.

i had a job riding shotgun ,literaly, in a van full of million dollar panavision cameras. the studio was in the rioters path, and the producers were evacuating everything of value. we ran the gauntlet over the hill into burbank. good times.

i've never shot anyone. never had to point a gun at anyone. but there have been several times now when i thank god i had a weapon.

Chris, move back to Germany please. Your homeland has such a rich history on civil rights and welcoming immigrants. And possibly the largest case of mass murder in the history of the world. That is a fine history you people carry, and earns you the right to judge the US and helped hand your country a humiliating defeat, again.
Here is my list, please try to come and take them from me Hillary:

Sig 232
Sig 239 .40 & .357sig barrels
Sig 229 .40 & .357sig barrels
Sig 226 9mm
Sig Mosquito
Glock 23
Glock 27
Beretta 92FS Desert Storm
Mossberg 500
Mossberg 590

The French make the best guns? What are you? Retarded?

They are the first to drop them when trouble comes, that is true.

Nice !!!!
I got my first gun last x-mas (wife bought). Always wanted one but never really found a use. Then I went to the range with a friend and loved it. Now it's something that I and my 12 yr old son enjoy together.
For all the gun haters out there, I have a question. Have you ever been to a range?
I never keep my gun loaded in the house and it would take me about 20 mins to load it. It's not used for home protection; I have a sharpened broad sword on the wall for that, I like to make it personal when someone sneaks in the window. I also have a very sharp Jack Russell that would make you think it was a Rotti
.

Back on the question of what freedoms does America have that others don't, as much as the world hates the US right now because of Iraq, it is interesting that the terrorists that want to cause harm to the US have to come INTO the country to do it. There are between 2 and 7 million Muslims living in the US today, and we have virtually no home-grown terrorists. France, for example, cannot compare (as the recent riots attest) in actually providing their supposed freedoms to all its citizens.

"and we have virtually no home-grown terrorists."

WOW - I can't believe you wrote that - Umm..... Ted Kazinski....A certain building in OK.

I love this site, and even read some of this post, but I think the collective group should stick to Motorcycles. Hey Chris, does your gun come with side bags?

"Hey Chris, does your gun come with side bags?" ;)

the key word here is 'virtually'.
we do/have had some:

SLA
black panthers
weather arm of SDS
EarthFirst
ELF
PETA

the unibomber had no help.
McViegh had gummint' sponsorship.
The jury's still out (not in my mind, though) about Steven Hatfill.

Every society has it's malcontents. When you have NO malcontents, it's time to start REALLY worrying.

Guess I wasn't clear, but my point related to Muslim terrorists specifically. Am surprised Roger has let this continue this long as well. Holiday spirit, I guess.