Problem with one of my sons teachers

[john70t]

Jim, remember Federal(and mabye state) law is very strict in terms of single-party audio recordings (although there has been some precident with in-class recordings).
You don't want to get involved with defensive legal proceedings if possible. The recording will help your witness recollection though of actual words spoken though in case of escallation.

This is why the US is out of control. No-one knows how to say "whoops, sorry" and no-one knows how to say "I forgive you".

[Jims5543]

I have not lawyered up yet and honestly do not want to become what I detest. But, if they push this issue with me I will hit them between the eyes its p to them. I do not want to sue them but if they choose to fight a war with me we can dance that dance.

[Schrup]

I had almost the same issue with a teacher when my daughter was in 9th grade. The teacher tried (and failed) to humiliate my daughter & played favorites.

When I confronted the teacher, it became apparent that the teacher was a lying snake. I had solid evidence that I took to the guidance counselor, but realized he was spineless. I had already had a run in with the vice principal over the odd way my daughter dressed (not provocative, just weird) & knew it was a waste of breath to talk to her again.

I had a talk with my daughter & explained the fact that not all people with authority are honest & that she will be confronted with such people throughout her life & will have to learn to minimize the damage & move on. She got into the Tacoma School of the Arts the following year & fit in well with all the other "EMO" kids.

I have a coworker that has a 8 year old son that was having a lot of difficulty in public school, unlike his 10 year old brother. He started private school this year & has flourished. My wife & I have agreed that we'll give public school a chance when our 3 year old son comes of age, but will put him in private school if there's any sign of trouble.

Jim, I feel it's important to show your son that you care about him & want to try & set things straight. You will have to determine if & when your fighting a losing battle & doing your son more harm (retaliation) than good. This might be a good opportunity to explain to him the samething I had to explain to my daughter instead of turning it into a war. I would rethink the idea of getting your son so involved in the battle that he would take a recorder to school.

The only time I've seen teacher confrontation work was when I was in 5th grade. My father confronted a PE teacher that had beat my @ss with a hockey stick. He told the PE teacher that if he ever touched me again, he would be eating with a straw for a couple of months. That did the trick, he never bothered me again. Too bad no one ever confronted my dad.

[K.B.]

From what we're hearing the teacher has made some mistakes. That will happen when you deal with 30 kids an hour 5 hrs a day. I see a lot of parents make plenty of mistakes with only 3 or 4 kids to deal with. We are only hearing one side of the story however and perhaps there were other circumstances that lead up to this event. Perhaps your son called the teacher a "Edited. -Z-man." LOL.

No excuse for what appears to have happened however. See if you can turn this into one big learning experience. Your son can learn not to be intimidated to signing something he doesn't want to. Could be 20 years down the line some high pressure salesman doesn't get a sale.

See if you can have your son tested for his learning difficulties. A section 504 can give him needed accomodations if they will help him learn.

Take a day off work and take your son to Epcot center yourself.

If you can't talk to the teacher, see if you can talk to the principal about the incident.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by K.B.
From what we're hearing the teacher has made some mistakes. That will happen when you deal with 30 kids an hour 5 hrs a day. I see a lot of parents make plenty of mistakes with only 3 or 4 kids to deal with. We are only hearing one side of the story however and perhaps there were other circumstances that lead up to this event. Perhaps your son called the teacher a "Edited. -Z-man." LOL.

No excuse for what appears to have happened however. See if you can turn this into one big learning experience. Your son can learn not to be intimidated to signing something he doesn't want to. Could be 20 years down the line some high pressure salesman doesn't get a sale.

See if you can have your son tested for his learning difficulties. A section 504 can give him needed accomodations if they will help him learn.

Take a day off work and take your son to Epcot center yourself.

If you can't talk to the teacher, see if you can talk to the principal about the incident.

In grade school my son was on a 504 plan. You know kids, and know thay do not like to be different, they want to blend. Unfortunatly some of his poorer teachers made the 504 a big deal and made him stand out from the class.

We took him off the plan and seeked out alternate means to try to help him, with a lof of success. The bad part is his self esteem, a lot of damage has been done by past teachers. I am not lying down and letting it happen again.

As far as Epcot, we had 1 year passes in 2004 we worked all 4 parks to death, he did not miss anything only hanging out with his friends.


My wife and I talked a lot this past weekend and we are going to pull him out of the public school and put him in private school for the next 1.5 years until HS. We hope this will help more with his self esteem more than anything.

[Jims5543]

BTW - over on the MINO forum one of the teachers told me to drop it because he will be retaliated against for the rest of the time he is in school.

That is all I had to hear from a teacher to know I do not want my kid in a public school anymore.

[M.D. Holloway]

Jim,
This 'teacher' is a POS! I would hard on this one and make sure it sends a message out to all the others. With the way the laws are set up now you have a great position for action.

One thing that I never do in any class I teach is to point out problems. I actually point out success. I have a Froshmen in class this year - the only one. He did great on the mid-term and I mentioned that to him so the others could hear it. I saw an incredable increase in his self esteem afterwards. Prior, he was a mouse, now he is a Bobcat working forwards being a Lion.

Kids don't need to go through that sort of crap. It could have been handled far better.

[john70t]

Originally posted by K.B.
No excuse for what appears to have happened however. See if you can turn this into one big learning experience. Your son can learn not to be intimidated to signing something he doesn't want to. Could be 20 years down the line some high pressure salesman doesn't get a sale.

+1. Remind him it's the process that lasts a lifetime, not the circumstance.
I'll recommennd against fishy stuff like tape recorders as well; just stick to burecratic proceedures all the way up to the public.

[wreckersteve]

I also had problems learning as a child. Lucky for me we had good support. My step son was having problems before school so we picked a good district to buy our hose in. It does wonders. He has had some displine problems along the way. I always listened to the principal and was usually in agreement. 1 time I wasnt and I let her know my feelings. Good comunication is very important. Unlucky for you it sounds like ypur school sucks. The money spent on private school is the best money spent on your child it sounds like.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

I feel the teacher is non-professional. I know some VERY good public school teachers who are VERY interested in their student's well being and learning environment. I know some who are not. The "teacher" sounds like a true dud!!! The counselor is even worse!! I had a running battle with my counselor for four years.

I was not one of the "pretty" people so she tried to block me from taking upper level courses. All the teachers requested me into their classes so I got in anyway! My father went in and had a come the Jesus meeting with her and the principle when one of my teachers informed him that the counselor was putting my records that I was mentally unstable. Guess thirty minutes of a good grilling from my dad in front of her boss and the nice threat of a huge personal and district law suit really shook the woman up! Never heard from her again!!! No more problems. No one ever messed with my dad more than once. Good, fair man, not good to make him mad.

A friend of mine went through a well respected private church run school in the Houston area. He graduated number two in his class. My parents could never understand how he could have surpassed me and at one point my folks asked about me going to the school. I refused. Seems the "teachers" all gave "instruction" out of school provided materials. The "teachers" would give the material to the kids and tell them to read the material and take the daily quizzes.

You see, the "teachers" NEVER looked at the information and the "school officials" never checked up on the "teachers." The material included answer sheets in the back of the books. All my friend had to do was look in the back of the book, miss one or two questions every week, and look busy. He "graduated", went to college, and found out he could read and comprehend on less than a fifth grade level.

Not all public schools are garbage and not all private schools are better than public ones. I would have KILLED to have gone to Episcopal High School in Houston, my folks did not have the money required. I did fairly well for public school in the Houston area.

[K.B.]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
In grade school my son was on a 504 plan. You know kids, and know thay do not like to be different, they want to blend. Unfortunatly some of his poorer teachers made the 504 a big deal and made him stand out from the class.

You should ask that the 504 plan be kept confidential as part of the plan. This is law, that must be abided by. Remember this when you get to high school. Have the details laid out, seek alternate testing if it will help confirm his need for accomodations. Ask the new school what they can offer to help him before you transfer. Keep records of what works best for him. All kids are special, some need different means to reach their end. This is what makes our current assembly line educational system difficult.

I know Florida teachers are not paid to well, so it looks like they don't always get the cream of the crop. Make sure you let the school know why you are transferring out, and that you are considering returning someday if they get their act together. If funding is tied to student count they will try a little harder. Act positive if you can and tell them you are just looking for what is best for your kid, who can argue with that. The classes get a bit harder in HS, and hopefully the teachers get a bit better too.


You know they say 10% of life is what happens to you and 90% is how you react to it. Maybe a new school is the best thing for your son. IMHO, just be looking for what good things are going to happen instead of running from the bad things that did happen.

[nostatic]

If you work the system, public school is great. If you sit back and are passive...your kid suffers. Do not take this lying down. Get a conference with the teacher, guidance counselor, and principal (in the same room at the same time...never do one-on-one). Have your talking points written down before hand and be calm but firm. You son should *NOT* be in the meeting. There is a time for kids to be in the discussion, but now is the time for dad to take care of business. Inform them that you believe your son, and that the teacher's behavior is not acceptable. If she is not 100% apologetic, request that he change classes (have it happen after winter break) and indicate that you will escalate the matter with the district. Principals don't like that at all. But since it is a public school you have recourse in the matter (unlike at a private school where they can just send your kid packing if you or he become difficult).

Although it is a bit late in the game, have him tested wrt learning disabilities. There isn't a stigma in it, and if he is diagnosed he can get extra help in the classroom in a variety of forms (again, another advantage of a decent public school).

Contrary to some opinions, most teachers are very caring and schools want their kids to do well. There are some bad apples, and they have to be addressed. And you're just the guy to do it.

And be sure to sit down with your son and tell him that you love him and that you are working to make school a better place for him to be able to work hard and learn.

[Superman]

Originally posted by Moses
Reading this has my blood boiling. When my daughter was in the 7th grade, she was publicly embarassed by her teacher in a similar fashion. Her teacher wasn't bright enough to lie about it so I didn't have to deal with that.

I told her teacher that a public humiliation requires a public apology. If he failed to apologize to my daughter in front of the entire class, I would pursue the issue tirelessly. He apologized. I'd still like to kick his sorry ass.

No teacher has the right to humiliate a student over academic performance, particularly a student with a learning disability. If you can find one single student to back up your sons story, I would insist on a public apology and threaten the district with legal action regarding your sons coerced confession unless he gets a written letter of apology. Your son needs to know that dad is in his corner and he doesn't have to take any crap from these people.

My feelings are the same as Mark's. I might add a couple of things. Obviously, the calmer you remain the more effective you will be. Before there is a public apology, there will need to be fact-finding to the point where conclusions are drawn and truth is known. One of the most effective methods I have seen is the "meeting." The meeting needs to include anyone and everyone who is involved. The Principle will agree to attend, and the teacher and guidance counselor must also be present. Lying and audience size are inversely proportional. Before you attend the meeting, if you can do so gracefully, talk to some other students who were in the room. Quickly, before memory fades. You may be able to go to the meeting with a statement such as "I called several other families this week and met with most. Of the seven students I talked to who were in the room, two did not remember exactly what was said and five clearly recalled the teacher announcing my son's "F" to the entire class."

The meeting strategy often works rather beautifully. Truth comes out. Folks back down. A better plan is adopted. And everyone knows little Johnny has parents who schedule meetings when teachers disrespect Johnny. The brighter light you shine on liars, the quieter their voice.

And of course, if there is retaliation, then there are follow-up meetings. Principles don't like law suits or newspaper stories.

And finally, this is not a "look what's wrong with public schools" story. Nor is it a "look what's wrong with education" or "look what's wrong with teachers" story. It is a "look at how some people are" story. The liars in public schools are not different from the liars in your workplace. And not different from the liars who teach at private schools.

[Jims5543]

We seem to be focusing on the learning thing and honestly this is not the issue. My wife and I have done a LOT to turn around this situation and believe he is on the upside of it now. Despite his F in Language arts, what we have learned the last few years is that a teachers quality is directly reflected in his classroom performance.

How can he be a solid B student last year and failing this year? What changed? Hmmm... the teacher?

The grade is not the issue, the kid is VERY bright just learns a lot different, he does most of his learning at home and with tutors. Since teachers (always the old bats) cannot comprehend how he cannot be learning from them and are unwilling to try something different. We have it covered.

My issue is with his self esteem. The damage done by his K-2 teachers and his 5th grade teacher has been staggering. When he got old enough to realize we would get his back (5th grade) he bagan to tell us about the teacher. Being told you are a weak person is not acceptable language from a teacher in my book. Its pathetic and sad that an adult needs to speak to a child this way.

Mt issue with Mrs. Rodgers neighborhood is how she humiliated him in front of the class, then lied about it, then had him forced into writing and signing a letter. That is my issue here.

I can teach him and work with him on his grades, hell, I have been for the last 6 years. I taught him math not the school.

If you remember there was another thread by me over him having to attend summer school for math, there were 17 of his class mates in his summer school class, the teacher was forced to quit after 3 semesters. He got a C in the 4th quarter and a D and 2 F's in the first 3 respectivly. He scored 2 points too low in the final to avoid summer school. This was all to our frustration, teacher conferences, meetings with guidence couselors and a talk with the principle. When we asked how many kids failed they refused to tell us. I got my info from my son who I asked to take a poll in the classroom in summer school to see how many kids were fron this teacher. 17 out of 25 in the class is amazingly high, especially when you consider this is for the whole district.

This school district claims to be the the best int he area, I wish they would show me it. Like I said we are not letting our 3 y/o into this school. We are on top of our kids and work hard with them to make sure they do well. We are there for both of them and it requires a lot of work. I have no social life because I spend all my free time with my kids and wife. They are all that matters to me.

Todd, a lot of conversations have occured this holiday weekend, my son was told we love him and he knows I have his back. He knows we love him and he knows daddy is really pissed off right now.

I have a really bad temper, it's got a really long fuse, but once lit, run and hide. I am basically in meltdown mode right now. Its taking a lot for me to be civil to these people.

[Superman]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
I have not lawyered up yet and honestly do not want to become what I detest. But, if they push this issue with me I will hit them between the eyes its p to them. I do not want to sue them but if they choose to fight a war with me we can dance that dance.

Be sure you give them a final chance to fix the problem without this method. Let me put this another way: Screaming, profanity-using hotheads are not NEARLY as scary as organize people who gather information and follow steps. As I said above, call for at least one meeting that includes everyone except your son. If the Principal denies the meeting, pause. Long pause. Restate the request, and ask if your understanding is correct that you are asking for a meeting and he is denying you that opportunity. Keep notes. He won't deny.

Simply make it clear that SOMETHING will happen to remedy this situation. Make it clear there are a variety of solution options, depending on who is prepared to cooperate. If nobody is prepared to cooperate, the parents still have options and the "record" is fairly clear. Write down lots of stuff in the meeting. Remarks made by attendees. Or, if you wish, shopping lists, poems, drawings of 911's. Just make them think you are taking detailed notes.

And remain calm. If necessary, get with the Principal afterwards. Make the conclusion that we have a problem that is not yet solved, but will be solved. Tell him you are unsure whether to expect a satisfactory solution from the school and its staff, or whether this is a matter that the school will not help solve....so the parents may need to take independent action. Look concerned.

There is nothing scarier than a calm, organized customer who feels strongly that something broken must be fixed. The message is "You do it.......or I'll do it. The ball is, for the moment, in your court."

[Jims5543]

I am calling the principle in the morning to set up a meeting. That was my next step. I wanted to get through today and see if the teacher was stupid enough to single him out again. She was not.

So now I move foward in the morning. With a level head and deadly calmness in my voice. No Red Bull in the a.m. for me.

[island_dude]

I guess I want to toss in a comment or two. As bad as the teacher is, the guidance consoler is worse. To force anyone to sign a statement against their will is beyond the pale. It doesn't matter what the situation is, this is totally unacceptable. Your meeting with the principal should emphasize the fact that even if there is a dispute over the facts, the days of simply taking the teacher's side are long gone. In the grand scheme of things, what she did was unprofessional, but not grounds for serious action. The fact that she would lie doesn't say much about her character

I agree that it would be great if there are others who can back up your son's version of the events, but it isn't likely to make a huge difference. After all, they may view that kids as sticking up for each other in the face of school athority.

The teacher's actions are totally eclipsed by the forced appology. That one is worth taking to the school board if the principal doesn't act. As far as the teacher continuing to take it out on your son, this can work both ways. Getting the message across that you are watching and supporting your son might also put her on notice not to really push it. On the otherhand, why doesn't he just drop the class? If he is failing, he will have to struggle just to pass.

[Moses]

Jim. Anytime you enter a meeting that will be adversarial, you need to think two steps ahead. You need to know precisely what position they are likely to take and how you will dismantle their position.

In this case, you know it's likely that they will back the teacher and claim that nothing inappropriate happened. As Superman suggests, you need to open this meeting by establishing that something inappropriate did happen. Then, you can spend the rest of the meeting discussing appropriate actions. It is far better to destroy their position before they begin to defend it. Before they become committed to the lie. If you can do that, you might have a very productive meeting.

You should also be able to give them a crystal clear list of reasonable remedies and your plans for escalation if they fail to comply.

[Jims5543]

My son is attending a complimentary 1/2 day at the Private School my wife wants him to go to.

I am calling the principle of his public school in a few and setting up a meeting with her only, and then scheduling a meeting with all parties involved.

I want them to understand why my son is being pulled from their school. Maybe it will make things better for other kids, but honestly, I don't think it will make a difference at all. I dont expect any of these meetings to be productive at all. Its obvious they all have each others backs. I hope I am pleasently suprised and proven wrong.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by Moses
Jim. Anytime you enter a meeting that will be adversarial, you need to think two steps ahead. You need to know precisely what position they are likely to take and how you will dismantle their position.

In this case, you know it's likely that they will back the teacher and claim that nothing inappropriate happened. As Superman suggests, you need to open this meeting by establishing that something inappropriate did happen. Then, you can spend the rest of the meeting discussing appropriate actions. It is far better to destroy their position before they begin to defend it. Before they become committed to the lie. If you can do that, you might have a very productive meeting.

You should also be able to give them a crystal clear list of reasonable remedies and your plans for escalation if they fail to comply.

Re-read this. Isn't it sad that I have to approach the school in such a fashion, in a combative mode?