Poor longhood. Top speed ~ 50 mph. :eek: :eek: :eek:

So did the guy give up on the electric Porsche?

The recycling of electric-car and hybrid batteries is in fact far easier than most civilians think. Not surpsringly, they are designed with the inevitable recycling in mind. Toyota, particularly, has done a great deal of work in this regard; I've interviewed Toyota people on the subject.

Yeah the batteries being difficult to recycle is old thinking. That is no longer. Also, simply the fact that a vehicle is not burning gallons of fuel in urban areas is a HUGE benefit.

Yeah, Toyota people would have you believe it - since they already have their money invested hoping to capture as much of the market to themselves as they can. But I've read many technical articles that dissagreed with Toyota. And Mike's post is very good.

"One of the problems with the electric/hybrid cars that not many people talk about is the polution that is created from the batteries. In order to produce and recycle the batteries it requires a great deal of processing due to the more exotic materials that are being used. The same difficulty is encountered when the batteries get replaced due to age. This leads to a larger total enviromental impact in an electric/hybrid vehicle than there is with a standard gas burner. Power plants are significantly more efficient at producing power than an internal combustion engine, but if electric vehicles become popular then there is the problem that the entire country would need to upgrade the electrical grid, consider how much power is consumed every day by all of the internal combustion engines in the country." ....MikeBogue

__________________

'82 Targa - sold
'80 928

Another good thing about electric cars is they'd be charged overnight when winds are the strongest for wind power but lowest for other electric consumption.

"Eat a lot of Peaches" John Prine sang about that back in the 70's.

I did not say anything about the ease of the production/disposal/recycling process for the batteries, I was only commenting on the pollution created when these operations are done. Also most electric cars do not use lead-acid batteries they use more radical compounds that are more difficult to produce/recycle which leads to more pollution. As far as the fuel burning in urban areas a clean running gas engine adds very little to the air quality, while the trucks which can not use electric power due to the energy requirements, are rarely in proper running condition and add significant hydrocarbons to the air.

Sorry Mike, I must say that what you are saying may work in theory but in practice you are incorrect. Running cars in urban areas is similar to my proposal, why don't we all put diesel generators in our yards and make our own electricity. What a mess we would have. Also, clean running gas engines are inefficient to maintain, harder to regulate, and most importantly unecessary.

Yes, good electric cars use lithium poly and nickle metal hydride batteries. These are incredibly efficient batteries that can be recycled over and over. The pollution factor is non existant. Currently a big problem is having lithium poly batteries that can be charged without getting too hot which can lead to other problems.

906 cams could come in very handy on the subway -- even in the post-G period where the whole City is safe for yuppies...

By maintaining emissions controls - I was thinking of the vapor items. The vapors from your car will outgass w/o the charcoal canister and other items, EVEN when it is sitting still. That partly defeats the ability to reduce pollution by not driving the car (I drove my car today, BTW - gave a demo ride to a friend who wants to buy an SC).

I meant individual on his own as vs. an organization -- not a big fan of committees.

Eventually, we (or our kids) will have very powerful motors with low pollution to swap into our cars. I suspect that some really tremendous sports cars will be seen in th future with advanced drive systems. A very light wt. car, with the heavy items distributed where the designer wants them instead of a single big lump that is hard to place in the middle and winds up in the front or rear...

But back to the more narrow topic of this thread -- I wanted to say something about Mitigation. Large companies often do this when they cannot avoid a certain amount of pollution (let's say it is CO2 emissions). You would simply plant enough trees to make up for the amount emitted.

A person can do something similar. Lawnmowers (except the Hondas - no surprise) are huge polluters. A modern car (1990's or later) can be driven 100-200 miles and pollute LESS than you mowing your lawn. So, I killed my lawn mower. I use a completely manual reel mower now. A side benfit was I don't have to breather a bunch of dust kicked up by a high speed rotary blade mower.

There are other things the interested person could do. Walk, car pool, or bike to work. You'd get more exercise and probably less stress.

Let's not forget backyard BBQ grills - I recall a report done by the EPA that singled them out as major contributors to particulate mass in air...

And no discussion of shrinking landfill space would be complete without the mention of disposable diapers...

Maybe that bumper sticker was right:

Save the planet - kill yourself

Me, I'll be burnin' fossil fuels until we run out of old dinosaurs. And since I commute only four miles to work and mow my lawn maybe every six weeks in the summer, I feel like I deserve some kind of pollution rebate. That's where the 911 comes in.

Regards,

I think the old two strokes must be the worst, my Lawn-Boy's belch tons of smoke.

Battery technology has certainly improved over the decades. Unfortunately the electricity with which we recharge them doesn't fall from the skies. The cleanest/greenest ways to generate electricity are from hydroelectric dams, wind, solar and tidal energies. Personally I like having lakes nearby ( dams) but I hear that migrating salmon don't care to hike up those water ladders to get upstream. And here in Canada many native (First Nation) peoples don't want to see their traditional lands turned into recreational waterfront for the well-to-do. Wind is free, but I don't really want to have one of those great big windmills in my yard. I guess we could cover the local golf courses with solar panels... would give us some shade up the fairways at the same time.
The other more common ways to generate electricity, coal and nuclear, well... if you're going to burn coal to generate electricity to recharge a battery it would probably be more efficient to simply develop a coal-burning car, as there are energy losses at each step. And I don't think our local recycler knows what to do with uranium or plutonium and all those other 'iums' yet.
Not to say that there won't be advances in technology that will make supplying electricity to cars more efficient and feasible. But right now California has had rolling blackouts due to insufficient electricity during high-demand periods. Imagine on a hot night when everybody's air conditioner is on at home AND millions of cars are plugged in for the morning commute? We'll definitely need more capacity to generate clean electricity than we have at present and I hope we find it (I vote for more lakes!)
And as far as hydrogen fuels go, I understand that it takes a fair bit of electricty to hydrolyse water, so we're back to mining coal and oil for a source of H, leaving tons of carbon as a byproduct.
But I love my CO2 belching car and I'm glad I got to live in a time when it is possible to do burnouts and hear the exhaust rumble. I wonder what my grandchild's first 'sportscar' will sound like.

Hopefully I didn't take this too far off topic.

Yes, 2 strokes are by far the worst int. comb. polluters


All energy sources have some issues - the trick (besides conservation) is to select the right source for the right place to minimize conflicts. A tidal power demo is about to start right now in the NYC's East River - right where the most productive oyster beds were in the 1700's before the pollution of the 1800's killed them off...

Ultimately, we will need PV power - sunlight to electricity. It used to cost 10x 'normal' rates; now it is down to 4x. So you can see the future coming...

When NOT driving the P-car, I drive my daily as smoothly as possible just like advised during track class. I gently squeeze the accelerator when starting and try to stay out of the turbo. I also try to maintain a reasonible following distance in stop and go-ish situation so I am not constantly stopping and starting. Smooth.

In the summer, I bicycle commute as much as I can. Even though I cannot bike the whole distance, I take the bike in the car to the least hazardous roads and start from there.

We recycle all paper, plastic, glass, motor oil, old paints, etc. We also compost our food and garden waste.

Yeah, it sounds like a lot of work, but it is we don't even know we are doing it.

Oh and weatherstrip your doors and windows to keep you heat use down. We put a curtain between out downstairs area and the stairs to trap the heat where we use it. Saves us $$, keeps us warmer, and saves propane.

Maybe I do this stuff cause I'm cheap, but it works for me.

What a coincidence! I just got this e-mail from PBS on a program still in production. Sounds like they need our input:Ideas for Car of the Future on NOVA

Also...

Use organic lawn fertilizer (If I was a total green freak - I would tear out the lawn).

I light my charcoal using by placing it in a tube and using a single piece of newspaper. Not only good for the air but better for your innards.

My weed whacker is electric/battery powered. But my lawn tractor is a gas hog.

Minimize the use of pesticides which can get into the ground water.

And tell your spouse/girlfriend to get off the pill because the fishies are getting too many hormones - just kidding.

Ohhh, that's why fish stocks are down... they're all on the pill!