Wash. state prohibits the use of toxic metal by-products in fertilizer. Oregon does not. Many Oregonians will only use fertilizer that is salable in Wash., if they don't use organic.
-- It's amazing the stuff ways they will dispose of toxics...


The fish issue is actually real - maybe more imp. for amphibians reptiles (but I'm not very well hooked into fish research...). A friend of mine is a research chemist at the nation Water Quality Labs and worked out the assay methods for this. Tey have found an amazing variety of drugs in wastewater. And of course, if you live downstream, then your drinking water is somebody else's wastewater. (Luckily, Paul lives downstream from me and not the other way around). Nobody really knows what hormones and their chemical mimics do to us (including the cute post-doc next door, who works on this when she isn't playing in her rock band).

But I do have a fact for you gentlemen:

You guys - on average - are 1/4 the men your grandfathers were.

- that's based on sperm counts.

Electiric vehicles would get a big boost in production if the EPA standardized a slide-in type of battery pack that stations could keep on hand, and mandated tax benefits, standardized testing and updated information(i.e. directional street signs) for consumers.

Power plants could also be converted to burn spent oil, bio/petro diesel, other hydrocarbon waste to generate electricity.

Imagine driving cross country and pulling into a gas station at 4 am. Attendant drags his butt to the garage, brings out a special floor jack and with a few clips...(lock is in the trunk)...drops your pack out and installs a certified new one.

Could this happen? Not anytime soon. New technology will continue to be "experimental" as long as the alternatives are big-money. The technology is there, consumer demand from another oil crisis will eventually be the only option.

It would take a very big, iron, fist that won't be there (here) for a long time.

I think at this rate the only dinner plate "fish" for my great-grandchildren will be expensive genetically-engineered, farm-raised cod fry with a big yellow sticker on the package that says "eat at your own risk".

We reap what we didn't sow unfortunately.

Randy, you are welcome to come on up amd mow my lawn with your little reel mower anytime...shouldn't take you more than a couple of days. Before you knock lawns, consider this...25 sq. feet of lawn produces enough oxygen to sustain one human.

I did the same thing Randy did--bought a reel mower in place of my two gas flailers. My lawn totals about an acre, pretty hilly and irregular, here in the Hudson Valley Highlands--not a suburbanite lawn by any means. And I'm 70. I'd come mow your little pissant lawn any time, but they don't allow push mowers on the Interstate.

Oh hey, don't bother Steve...I use a HONDA powered 21" Snapper...that passes the Randy test. You could come help me out on the next Earth day, though...I sometimes choose that day to turn one of my trees into firewood. Hmmm...I wonder how much diesel was burned and chemicals applied in Oregon's Willamette Valley to produce the seed that grew your N.Y. lawn? Oregon grows the majority of lawn seed sold worldwide. Yep, we're all in this together. Maybe we should just breed less? But then, as long as sex is more popular than death, we're going to have an overpopulation problem, aren't we?

Sorry guys, I'm not suckering for the guilt trip here....

A little non-tech, but:

Paul FYI: the huge grass lawn could be planted with beech or black walnut or other prized-wood trees which would also increase the property value in time.
In addition, apple/cherry/etc trees .. would attract wildlife (read:back porch hunting), provide food and activity for kids, or use as a side buisness.
People have also been profitable growing rare/gourmet plants for local resteraunts and *****ake mushrooms in the side shed. Or put in some catfish ponds.


No need to pay taxes for "dead" space unless the football team is scheduled to practice, there is a wildfire threat, or the indians are attacking;).

It isn't about guilt Paul. It's about being a better citizen -- among other things...

You don't need a large lawn - my crazy friend in MN has 2 acres - he's always complaining about mowing it. I told him to plant natural prairie bunch grasses (that belong there) and leave turf grasses near the house. All you need it enough lawn to roll around on or for the kids/dogs to so so. The rest can be trees, bunch grasses, or vineyards, hps & barley for malt - whatever. Brew your own beer from the rest. john70t has it right.

Randy, you've been here...the back of my place is an evergreen island for tweeties, squirrels, etc. The lawn? It's there as a natural firebreak in case... I lost a couple of trees & some limbs in the last windstorm...for obvious reasons, I like trees far enough from the house to not cause damage. Now as far as fossil fuels? All our rigs combined travel less than 10,000 miles per year.

Then I toss in the fact that most of the airborn mercury and other pollutants in this planet's air comes from Red China...coal burning plants? Well, screw the Kyoto accord! Let ALGOR sue Red China, force it to change it's ways....If you ask me, the USA does, and is doing more than most when it comes to living "green".

The trees on my property? I planted 'em all...several decades ago. This place was rocky nothing when we moved here.

One good idea...sign the Kyoto Bill...!

exposed rocks? I'm surprised for that part of Orygun...

Anyway, Paul, I think you should get your friendly neighbors to graze your lawn. (or their livestock - whatever).

The China comment is spot on -- I just saw something that the planned coal plants for China & India are 5 times the savings in the Kyoto accords. Kyoto is important tho, as it is a political first baby step. w/o a first step you aren't going anywhere.

__________________--
Back to cars... one of the Rennlist questions (form Sweden IIRC) was what to do with oily rags from oil changes & etc.

- I'm not sure about that. Best, I guess, would be to send them thru a rag service at a shop. If you don't have a friendly shop, then I'd say using paper as much as possible and putting it in a bottle with the used oil might be best.

eat less beans,sprouts and onions based meals...
ans as a result , produce less methane

Get a bike and a transit pass.

Will cost me about $60/month to commute to my new job. 5 miles each way on a bike (20 min or so) to the train station, 20 min on the skytrain, 20 on a bus. $10/month for the bike locker, $50 for the transit pass (good for the train and bus), done. Saves me a ton of money, I get exercise, and good for the environment.

Im also making my modded 944 Turbo ready for E85 fuel.

Some small things that I do to lessen my consumption of resources, and be environmentally conscious. Some I do on purpose others are just because of circumstances...
-Live in an apartment building (much more efficient than a house)
-Live in a Urban area
-Taking Public transportation
-Riding Bicycle to work when weather allows
-Recycling
-Buy Used Things rather than new things
-When I do buy something new I make sure I really need it and the company producing the item is a company I like to support.