Rumsfield's Parting Thoughts
 

Rumsfield's memo to Bush, shortly before he was fired.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/03/world/middleeast/03mtext.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Excerpt:

"The situation in Iraq has been evolving, and U.S. forces have adjusted, over time, from major combat operations to counterterrorism, to counterinsurgency, to dealing with death squads and sectarian violence. In my view it is time for a major adjustment. Clearly, what U.S. forces are currently doing in Iraq is not working well enough or fast enough."

The memo goes on to list numerous options. The general thrust is to begin pulling US troops out - closing 90% of bases by mid-07, withdraw forces from cities and patrolling, moving troops to Kuwait, cease providing security to some areas of the country, drawing down Coalition forces - while providing more resources to the Iraqi forces - transfer equipment, embed more trainers.

The memo also suggests talking down American expectations about what will be accomplished in Iraq.

"¶Announce that whatever new approach the U.S. decides on, the U.S. is doing so on a trial basis. This will give us the ability to readjust and move to another course, if necessary, and therefore not “lose.”

¶Recast the U.S. military mission and the U.S. goals (how we talk about them) — go minimalist."

Well, either Rumsfeld is displaying that age old theory that hindsight is 20-20, or he felt this all along, and Bush, in his blind vitriol, encouraged Rumsfeld to supress his true feelings and be, in turn, a good soldier.

I kind of think the latter as no one can be stupid enough to believe this war has, is and will continue to conduct itself successfully. That kind of stuff is for Cheney to spew.

Following is the text of a classified Nov. 6 memorandum that Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld sent to the White House suggesting new options in Iraq.

The memorandum was sent one day before the midterm Congressional elections and two days before Mr. Rumsfeld resigned.

If that document is shown to be real, and no one has done that yet, then why is another frigging classified document being released by the NYT?

Does'nt anyone care that a newspaper is again releasing CLASSIFIED documents to the public?

Not meaning just the Bush materials, but ANY CLASSIFIED documents. They are classified for a reason and its not for any newspaper to be doing this, no matter how they receive them.

Last I checked, the NYT doesn't have clearances. So obviously somebody with access is providing them to the NYT. That person is the one that bears the responsibility for the release. The NYT signed no oath and has no obligation to determine what is classified or not. That is what the government does.

As I am sure you know Joe, not everything in a classified document is classified or sensitive. Only particular facts and the sources of them. There is no justification to classify something just because it is potentially embarrassing not politically advantageous. This is one more in a string of comments that attacks the messenger.

The paper published the information, but the release was by the person who gave the document to the NYT in the first place.

Too little too late.

The time for looking at the situation objectively and realizing the stupidity of involvement was four years ago - not now.

Another "cut and run" traitor.

LOL

Do not disagree but the NYT has done nothing but disclose classified documents, one after another, time after time. I could care less whats in them, they are CLASSIFIED and until they are re-cleared and released they should not be published.

What is it going to take before we have enough of this crap and take the NYT to court to stop it?

Joe A

PS I felt the same way when Clinton was in office. This is not a political rant but feel that the NYT and others need to respect the term "classified document, or information" a bit more.

Not only do I not object, they should be praised for doing so. At least 98% of classified documents having to do with executive branch decisions are classified to cover their asses, prevent historical analysis, or to prevent criminal prosecution. There is need for classification of certain aspects of military operations in progress of imminent, of certain aspects of operating equipment, or a combination of the two. There is no need for classification for operations completed, or of intelligence gathering that took place more than 20-30 years ago.

This administration has been among the most clandestine oriented in recent history. They've even had things that had been declassified returned to a classification status that denys public access.

Last, government documents prior to 1960-1970 should be released and available to the public. All documents, papers, military operations, equipment operations, tests, and everything else.

We do not need and do not want an unaccountable government.

It seems even Fox is providing the full memo too.

Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld filed a memo to the White House two days before resigning that suggested the U.S. consider a course correction in Iraq, FOX News has confirmed.

In the memo, originally published in The New York Times, Rumsfeld called for a "major adjustment" in the Iraq war policy, because he said current strategy was not working.

Click Here to Read the Full Rumsfeld Memo.

Click Here to Read the Full New York Times Story.

“Clearly, what U.S. forces are currently doing in Iraq is not working well enough or fast enough," the memo reads.

Rumsfeld — showing no indication of whether President George W. Bush's administration would actually adopt changes to Iraq policy — said the officials should consider a campaign if course change should be implemented to limit political consequences.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,234001,00.html

Joe,
I understand your point, but the fact is that classification is being abused greatly these days to protect decision making and not secrets. If the NYT or other organization started to publish the details of our overhead intelligence capabilities or of weapons capability (beyond the the obvious), I would get very very ticked off. This is a policy memo. I don't know what about it is classified since nothing in it seems to be derived from an intell source.

If Iraq 2 was based on the minimalist-forces model, why did it cost so much?

Cannot disagree with your comments but when and where is it going to stop? What training do the editors at the NYT have in working withclassified material? Doubt that they have any sort of clearance and most likely it has two motives, selling newspapers and getting their cronies elected into office.

How do they know that what they are disclosing is not a very secret program whose disclosure could cost lives and ruin years of work? The problem is that they DO NOT know, they just want to sell newspapers and do not care about the damage they cause.

The problem is that the NYT is not the organization that should be putting ANY classified material out to the public.

They have already published information that has screwed the country one time (the SWIFT program in Europe) and we continue to allow them and other newspapers to publish as they please.

It has to stop somewhere and hope that it does and fast, for the entire country's sake.

As a counterweight against incumbents who classify to keep their cronies in office, no problem.

Quote:

How do they know that what they are disclosing is not a very secret program whose disclosure could cost lives and ruin years of work? The problem is that they DO NOT know, they just want to sell newspapers and do not care about the damage they cause.

Because those are obvious things, even enlisted scum can tell that. (Note, I was enlisted for 16 years)

Quote:

The problem is that the NYT is not the organization that should be putting ANY classified material out to the public.

On the contrary, they've been nearly derelict in not publishing a whole lot more. When government tells you not to publish, you should immediately investigate why, and then publish when it's obvious that it's only CYA crap.

Quote:

They have already published information that has screwed the country one time (the SWIFT program in Europe) and we continue to allow them and other newspapers to publish as they please.

That freedom of the press is SO inconvenient, isn't it. If a program needs secrecy, then we don't need that program.

Quote:

It has to stop somewhere and hope that it does and fast, for the entire country's sake.

Far better to ere on the side of revealing secrets, than to let sleazy government thugs have their way with us.

the worst part of the Rummy story ,is that this weasel will still make more money in the lecture and presentations circuit let alone in the "board of directors" circuit..., then i ever could make doing a regular payed job...

yes i am slightly bitter

Pat,

Please don't start praising the NYT. They are part of the elitist ruling class that works diligently to promote those who would continue the trampling of your personal liberties.

During Stalin's rule of the Soviet Union, a NYT reporter didn't find it worth reporting that Stalin had sent millions of Ukrainian farmers to their death for resisting communism. The reporter was in Moscow when the round-up took place.

It turns out he was a member of the Communist party in the U.S. It was obvious where he placed his allegiance. I'm not convinced that much has changed over the years. They are the propaganda machine of the leftist, socialist movement at all levels of government in this country.

Fear them, loathe them but please don't praise them. They do not look out for you and don't represent your best interest.

Rumsfeld is brilliant. He is just so far ahead of the rest of you military neophytes that you will never understand. Fighting a war is much like buillding a Porsche...it is always more expensive and takes longer than you could ever imagine until you do it yourself.

Best quote of the day, hands down. You truly are a comic genius, Fint. Thanks for the laugh !:)

Aurel

LOL

i may miss my targa on the occasional day
but most of the time, i'm glad i got rid of the money pit


so yes, the analogy works..
Rummy is like a rusted , non original, saggy Targa that'll cost more to restore then it'll ever be worth even to the biggest optimist out there...

:D

Actually the analogy was between an old 911 and a war. Yes, a war costs much more than than one would ever imagine...especially in this era where politically we cannot have collateral damage or loss of troops like in past wars where they were simply cannon fodder.
Just like restoring an old 911....A war is often well worth the price once completed....but if you walk away in the middle of the job....you will have wasted a lot of money and effort and the results are likely worse than if you had never attempted the task. That is why, once undertaken, one must ignore the whining of the wife (in the case of the 911) or liberals (in the case of the war) until the manly work is done

Yes, I'm aware of their history, but even a blind (and Stalinist) hog finds a truffle now and again. If we're to let government go after the NYT, they'll use that precedent to go after them all. Lincoln closed down over 300 newspapers, most never saw the light of day again, including not just a few that had their presses smashed.

"so that government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall not perish", friggen murderous monster.

Pat,

I favor "freedom-based" solutions. I have had the NYT telemarketers call me to offer the NYT delivered to my house. I routinely tell them that I would not have that rag anywhere near my home. I don't read socialist propaganda.

Many others are choosing not to read their paper and they are losing readership. If no one buys their rag, there is no need for government interference.

Exactly, the only legitimate way to handle that.

However, many, if not most, newspapers today get their cue for "all the news that's fit to print" from the NYT, so if you read a newspaper at all you're likely getting a NYT story some of the time.

Damn those pacifists anyhow. How dare they say we don't have the right to kill each other.

ever watch Star Trek, the Organians in Errand Of Mercy?

One silly question here... How many of the posters on this thread are active duty military? How many of these posters have a MOS in the military that was combat related?

I count one person that fits and its the person who is making the statement about Rummy that many of you do not like and are making fun of.

Lets see, Fintstone is active military and has an extensive background dealing with this sort of thing, both in the past and right now. You guys have absolutely no idea what he does and if you found out you would be blown away.

Aurel and Sinjin please tell us about your extensive military background and training, then we can compare everyone as equals. It would be much more fair this way.

Stoney, dont you just love it when people who never wore a uniform (or was a bedpan General) knows everything there is to know about strategy, planning and warfare? Wonder if they stayed in a Holiday Inn last night too boot??!! Bet that they forgot that Rummy was also a soldier and has more experience than anyone posting on the thread...

Joe

First, be sure to wipe up before typing Joe.

Second, YOU'VE told us all about Flintstone and what he does. You've posted a couple of times that he's the guy leading the task force to capture Osama bin Laden and, I guess, in his spare time he's building laser deathray-equipped Boeings.

You really ought to keep classified info a little closer to the vest.

How do you know what he told you isn't disinformation? :)

Dubya classifies documents to cover his butt. Like for example.......ummmm......THIS ONE. Not for national security reasons. And I imagine that's what pisses Joe off. Dubya's cover-your-ass classification decisions are not sticking. The nation is finding out, and will continue to find out, what's been really going on in Washington lately.

But let's set that aside in favor of something infinitely more obvious. A newspaper reports what it sees. A newspaper is free to report whatever it sees. If a newspaper is government-regulated, then it is not a free press. If a newspaper is government-regulated and then the libs take over (as you know darned well they will) Congress, then you'd have newspapers that are run by government liberals. Do you still want to press for regulation of the press?

The problem is not that the NYT reported what it saw. The problem is that the NYT saw this memo. (Actually, the problem is that the memo was classified in the first place)

Joe, if you were railing against the publication of information that should have stayed classified, I would be as angry as you. But there are two differences. I would be angry at the person who leaked the information. The other difference is that information personally embarrassing to Dubya.......is not information that should stay classified.

Sorry. I live in a democracy. Voters' decisions depend on the information available. If Dubya is an embarrassment, then I'd like the voters to know that. And they seem to know that now.

No one that I can see, well no one besides me that is.

Quote:

I count one person that fits and its the person who is making the statement about Rummy that many of you do not like and are making fun of.

I didn't see anyone making fun of my posts, Joe, did they do that behind my back?

Quote:

Lets see, Fintstone is active military and has an extensive background dealing with this sort of thing, both in the past and right now. You guys have absolutely no idea what he does and if you found out you would be blown away.

No, fintstone has no background of that kind at all. Where did you get such a silly notion? Oh, from him, oh well then. And you're the queen of Sheba, too.

Quote:

Aurel and Sinjin please tell us about your extensive military background and training, then we can compare everyone as equals. It would be much more fair this way.

Tell about the extensive military background of Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Libby, and on and on. You've dug this hole, let's see you take a crap in it now, genius.

Quote:

Stoney, dont you just love it when people who never wore a uniform (or was a bedpan General) knows everything there is to know about strategy, planning and warfare? Wonder if they stayed in a Holiday Inn last night too boot??!! Bet that they forgot that Rummy was also a soldier and has more experience than anyone posting on the thread... Joe

Profound words from a flying bus driver, NOT.

Fintstone isn't leading squat, he's not even active duty, and hasbn't been for years. He's in his fifties, and a reservists, MAYBE.

Sheesh...why the insults? Is there still a task force looking for Osama? Isn't he the democrtatic presidential nominee? LOL. Did someone not have their nappy today? Oh, and it is "Fintstone".
Joe is correct. It does seem that those most interested in bashing the military are those with the least knowledge/experience. He is also correct regarding my military experience. I don't know why some of you denigrate it. For the record, I have just under 26 yrs active and about 3 yrs reserve. I actually complete 30 years in about a month. I retried from active duty but was recalled to fill an urgent need for my skills in the AF Reserves. I am currently dividing my time between serving in the reserves and working as a DoD civilian (GS). I work for DoD leading a team that develops and tests joint tactics, techniques, and procedures for all services that are immediately put to use on the battlefield. In the reserves, I do whatever they need me to do to help with the war effort, but am currently serving as a space flight test engineer.
I have done a lot of different jobs in the military from aircraft maintenance, special ops, ICBM missile launch officer... to engineer and scientist. The military lets one do a lot of different things if you are smart, work hard, and hang around long enough.
I usually don't respond to these posts because they mostly appear to be feeble attempts to get me in trouble from passing sensitive info. I would appreciate your discussing the contents of my posts and not my employment.

Every time I open one of your posts reminds me why I have had you on "ignore" so long. Strangely enough....every time I do, you are telling some sort of lie about me. I guess a good reminder to avoid your posts now and then is necessary.

I will give you points for being partially right. I am only active duty when the reserve puts me on active duty. That was weeks ago, not years. I was definitely in a leadership position....certainly not emptying bedpans to eek out a measly pension from a military I abhor as some do. When I am not pulling reserve duty, I am also in a leadership position ...leading a team of joint service military officers and enlisted as well as government civilians and contractors. Even with your limited service, you should be able to understand...if you try.
Oh, and I am not even in my "fifties."

that's a very optimistic list...
especially the war on Terror list
"Liberated xx million in Afghanistan from the Taliban"

yeah, that's why they still get bullied by the Taliban, and schools get rebuilt during the day, while teachers get killed at night

Liberated xx million of Iraqi's , killed a bunch of em in the process, and allowed foreign fanaticals to enter the country because the job wasn't planned right, despite Shinzeki's estimates of what was necessary


Humanitarian Operations & Disaster Relief
it's not like Rummy went to the disaster areas and did the work now is it? all he did was pass on the order from higher up or from congress, that the militay was to go and help out..


not even going to bother with the rest

Good, glad you did not bother because you would lose the argument.

You are correct, it was a very optimistic time before 9/11, then everyone's world changed. Anyone put in that situation would have a difficult time dealing with it, but he did.

Again Stijn, what is your military qualifications and background? You seem to have forgotten to enlighten us...

what are Rummies qualifications?? sure he was in the military
but he sure as hell was never a general, in fact when his General made a correct assesment, he dismissed it , and dismissed that general...

they kinda left that, and the problems it caused out of the list
hence my comment bout that list beeing optimistic


my qualifications: i was born in Ypres, raised on a former battlefield, i know the end result of stupid wars , led by idiots far away from the frontlines...that's all the qualifications i need to be against wars , and against warmongering chickenhawks on a powertrip...

And how much military experience and years of service do you have? You left the service as what, a Col. or General or what?

You seem to feel that Rummy should have ranked that high so just curious...

why do i need any military experience, to see that Rumsfeld did a bunch of no-no's?

or don't you agree that he bullied Shinzeki' out because he felt he knew better, and isn't it clear now ,that Shinzeki was spot on with the assesment ???

does one need military experience to put 2 and 2 together?

why the hell would i even want to be in the military if i'm a pascifist?? i don't have any urges to be ordered around by others, simply because they can.. let alone be sent abroad to some foreign ****hole, because the secdef knows best? ha!

I rest my case your Honor....

didn't proove anything there, but sure , rest away

There is no clause in the Constitution or Declaration of Independence that says "Experienced Only May Apply" when exercising rights.

History will judge decision made during the Iraq campaign. My OPINION is that history will not be kind to those who conceived, developed and ran it - whether or not they had personal military experience. Might as well say that only people with direct experience of foriegn cultures and politics should be allowed to create strategy and tactics for going to war with those cultures.

Scott,

Correct however who is ready to have surgery done by a plumber? Television repairman fixing your 911? The gardner wiring your house?

Its called experience for a very good reason. Anything important in this world and our lives deserves experience.

We can have all the people logging onto the forum possible, but why is it that the majority of the people with experience in this area posting on this thread support one view, and largely not being listened to, and the rest of the people (and one of them is not even living in America, and not an American) support a different view.

One would think that unless they wanted the plumber to start preforming surgery on people, that the smarter people in this word would listen to the experienced military people. Its sure not being done on this forum most of the time.

I have lived in 6 countries in my short life and hope to live in 1 or 2 more before "heading West." I just get tired of so many people who do not live in America ranting and raving about how bad it is, how we are the worst country in the world and such. Also, why are so many people dying every day trying to get into such a terrible country?

Strongly agree with your last statement. Problem is that the vast majority of Americans have never been futher than 200 miles away from where they were born, which is a shame.

Joe