the Lupo GTi was a slick car. Saw one at a VW show 3 or 4 years ago on display.

10 years ago, I had a 1991 VW GTI 8v, with a 2.0 liter audi 3A block, autotech cam, modified MAF, TT exh, Shine Racing suspension etc. It was a GREAT car and far simpler and more reliable/utilitarian than the Corrado I bought next.

not really 80 mph is about 120 km/h..which is the max speed on most highways in europe...a car for the european market, is well capable of doing that without breaking a sweat

might take a while to get there, but once there... should be fine

The Lupo you saw was probably from Mexico. I see odd Mexican registered cars on this side of the border quite often. If you ever see an odd car driving around, check out the plate...probably from Mexico.

Nope, wasn't Mexican. We see plenty of them too. We often see all kinds of cars wearing "urban camo" to hide design features etc., and I do know that the GM site (at least) has quite a few comparison cars that they keep around for evaluation purposes.

well, GM is trying to break into the european market
they took over that korean carmaker Daewoo who does the Matiz ,and it compares with a Lupo in terms of size...maybe they want to break a few of the Lupo's records?

it's quite funny really , all these tiny econoboxes that all of the sudden drive around with the Chevrolet badge... i wonder how much marketshare Daewoo's product line lost because of that rebadging...

they have to...they are dying here

The Mk 1 GTI had no suspension travel and a primitive rear axle, too.

Sad to say, but if you want a hot hatch that was imported into the U.S. that has real suspension, light weight, and all the right stuff, there's only one choice and it ain't German. :(

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1165260614.jpg

i just know for fact that i liked driving the golf Gti a lot more then teh 205 gti.. the latter was just twitchy at high speeds, you had to take care with the steering wheel if there was any deformation on the right lane of hte highway (from trucks) and you wanted to take a quick off ramp... the 205 did not give me a confident feeling whereas teh mk1 golf gti did, any sudden move would take you to a world of trouble...

then there is french cars vs german cars
on german cars , you can take most bolts off with maybe a bit of WD40...

on french cars you're constantly grinding off bolts
and they are all different sizes
try disassembling a Citroen DS... you really do not needs a set of wrenches...

the 205's rep was mostly due to the rally Turbo's who had a completely different setup...

"Big" luxo direction?

LOL....the only thing that's gotten bigger are the gaudy rims and the pricetag.

IME, these new VWs are among the most overpriced cars on earth. WAY too much money for the car, and like all VWs(but beetles), they hold their value for crap.

If one must buy one of these shoeboxes, buy it @ two-three years old. You'll save thousands.

Yeah, that was like the FWD Porsche in its day. The Type R was sick fast and could handle like nobody's business.

I read one Euro car magazine that had that car doing 0-60 in 5.5 seconds. Amazing.

No traction control. No stability control. No ABS sensors watching your every move. It takes actual engineering skill to get a FWD car to put the power down that well with only mechanical means.

Most cars today with >300 hp would be impossible to drive without the electronic nannies. I wonder how well the GTI would accelerate from a stop with the traction control off? My old VR6 with a mere 174HP had major traction problems in any but perfect conditions.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1165331025.jpg


All kidding aside I was so amazed at how much fun my MINI was to drive hard. I am sure these VW's are good too.

Jim - that tricycle image is a riot.

But again, I think engineering has come leaps and bounds with FWD. That hot rod Neon from a couple years ago, with an insurance-agency conservative 215 hp (more like 230 hp), was pretty easy to launch - but it was a turbo.

Cars like the Integra R were evidentially much trickier. But one would expect that with no power below 4,000 RPM, and a redline of 8,000 RPM.

Seriously, the car that rips the new GTI a new one is the Civic Si. They're faster, handle better, and are lighter - but the GTI is more of a liveable car with more interior room and also more neutral styling.

But you have to be impressed with the Civic Si winning its class at the 25 hours of Thunderhill, and coming in second overall.

What was truly amazing was the car that came in first place overall in the 25-hour race -- a 1974 Porsche Carrera!

Man what SI and GTI are you talking about....1992? The new GTI and SI are almost dead on in performance. Most of the reviews also pick the GTI for performance and comfort. The only thing the SI actually beats the GTI on is price. Then consider if you put a $500 chip in the GTI you have a 250-260hp car, the Civic is no match.
Road and Track
Consumer Guide
Car and Driver Autoweek

Until Honda realizes you can't take a knife to a gun fight they will not be competitive in the hot compact market anymore. Everything in it's class has either a turbo or supercharger; which plays to the younger audience quite well. VW has the right products for a change, but they need to make sure they get quality up. The new MK Vs seem to be put together well, but I will reserve judgment for another year or two on them.

I admit I am a bit of a VW bigot, but no one will argue the main competitors to the GTI are the WRX, EVO, MazdaSpeed, and Cobalt SS/Ion Redline. All of those cars are more "Tuner friendly" so to speak.

EVO is not a competitor...it destroys the GTI.

I like my GTI fine but once I get a bit of free cash I'm probably going to sell it. I don't like FWD and I don't like turbos. Not sure what I'll end up getting though...slim pickings these days.

Motor Trend did a comparison of SI vs. GTI. The SI won. I don't know what the other stuff you posted is about. I've only read the Motor Trend article. What really convinced me of the SI's capabilities was the 25 hours of Thunderhill. I can't remember if any new GTIs entered that endurance race.

If you are refering to this article:
Motor Trend

Then you would see the performance of the two cars was so close any driver on any given day could drive either car faster. In typical magazine fashion only one car slightly won. My point is the SI is far from superior. It is the typical Honda cheap box with a low torque 4. Like all of my old Hondas after 4 years it will begin to rust, the seats will sink, the dash will fade and it will run to 150K miles with no other issues. Honda builds great cars, don't get me wrong. They are just missing the current market trends. As for racing, VW doesn't do much racing in the US as it doesn't seem to suit their interests.

The EVO probably was a bad example for a direct competitor, so substitute in the Mini S. My point was the desirable vehicle in this target market is something out of the box cheap that can be made to go faster for not much more money. Probably the best of these cars in recent years was the Neon SRT4. The GTI is spot on this market. If we ever get the new R32 that will be more of a direct competitor to the WRX again.

Well, I don't street race, so I don't really care about "tuning" any of these cars. I don't think any of them are particularly attractive track cars. My GTI would be a pig. Maybe the STI or Evo. But I'd rather have an old 911 or BMW for that.

VW has had serious build issues and I hope mine is immune until I sell it. I think the GTI is a fine car, but I just don't see it as head and shoulders above the competition. Nicer interior yes (until it falls apart...seen some reports of seat issues), but you pay for it.

I hear you, but the edge the SI puts on the GTI is in all the right spots for a fast driver.

Of course, if one doesn't like shifting a close ratio transmission and reving up an engine to make power and speed, the SI is not the car, and for that person, I'd recommend the GTI, particularly the paddle-shift version.

None of this is to refuse the GTI's prowess. It is a good car, though possibly not comparable to the SI. The GTI's pluses are the paddles and its interior; the engine is very cool, but VTEC and close gears speak for themselves. They have since the Integra R.

The R32, I think, is overrated. It's heavy and has too much intervention via its AWD. If given the choice between it and a GTI, hands down it'd be the GTI. On the other side of the spectrum, the R32 seems close to the BMW 3 Series in price.

The SRT was a very interesting car in that it was just a simple hot rod. Daimler-Chrysler had a nice product with that car. Too bad they discontinued it with the new model, which is really quite ugly, IMO.

I agree. An old M3 (95-99) would be fun at Willow - maybe even faster than a 911. :eek: