Why doesn't the US have "Targas"?
 

So the past two weekends I've enjoyed watching the hour long highlight shows of the Australian Targas. And of course, I look forward to watching the Targa Newfoundland when it comes on. They all look like a blast! And it looks like they have something for everybody, from the super competitive to the "average Doug", in terms of various groups and comptetive classes.

So what I'm wondering is why we don't have "Targas" like these here in the states? ..or do we? I know the sport of Rallying is growing, especially in the PNW, but that's all off road stuff. What about tarmac rallies? I'd love to participate in something like the ones seen on SpeedTV. (..of course, I'd need a co-pilot...Julie can't read while she's in the car or she'll puke!)

Would love to hear from folk who have participated in any of these.

Cheers!

Too much of a liability. Americans for the most part, don't know how to drive and only feel that NASCAR is racing. Thats my guess...

We have too many lawyers for such a thing.

Stupid f'ing lawyers...

Yep, Lawyers and frivolous lawsuits ruin everything.

But what to do about the lawyers?

lawyers and crappy roads

Because we have Rodeos instead.

Hey, that works on two levels:D

ROFL!

Hey, I resemble that remark. ;)

What do you mean we dont have targas....??

what about the austrailian targa is different?

When I lived in England I was a member of the local car club and did a few road rallies, which I guess is similar in principle to that which you are referring. These weren't races as such, they were officially refered to as 'navigation rallies'. The idea was to complete the event in a given time which would be worked out on a 30mph average speed.
Basically, at the start of each stage we were given a sheet of paper with all sorts of codes and evil devices for encrypting the route. The idea was that your navigator would set to work on the first few plots while you drove, he would then continue working out the route, navigating you down it, and at the same time keeping an eye on the time and distance to make sure you hit the next control point on time. You were penalised for being early or late, or going off route.
Of course it didn't go that smoothly most of the time, and both he and I would be sitting at the side of the road trying to work on the route, and then I'd have to make the time up that we'd lost.
That said it was very, very rare for anyone to have any incidents and even driving enthusiastically we were probably not going that fast.

I do remember finishing one event in my Mini, and on getting out we noticed we had had grass and other debris wrapped all around the tailpipe. That would have been OK but it was all swept sideways, rather than backwards from a corner that we had taken with the back hanging out off the side of the road. Oops!

If I remember correctly, the local police were informed when an event was on, but they'd generally stay out of the way, and it was all fairly civilized. It was generally done late at night, always on quiet country back roads, and we weren't allowed to drive through villages over the posted speed limit or with our auxillary lights on. Everything was very well controlled, for example there would be marshalls stationed in the villages who'd report rule violatins back to the checkpoints etc. Essentially a lot of fun, for very little expense.

Even at the time though, things were starting to get a little difficult. It was getting harder to find decent roads, diffucult getting volunteer marshals to man the control points and villages, and harder to get police agreement. I just can't imagine trying to get the same thing organized over here, it would be next to impossible without someone suing you.

Asked and answered I suppose, but here's my take.

Liability is but one issue, blocking off the public thoroughfare is another. In America, the public has a right to the road, and removing it from use is a questionable activity. In europe, this is a non-issue, government owns the roads and sets which ones are available to the citizenry, and that's that.

Not the same here, yet.

Interestingly an east coast 'targa' type event over here in Aus has recently folded due to a lack of financial and local support. It's interesting as the two main targa events are in tasmania and adelaide, which are pretty small population centres. The targa tasmania seems such a success in part because the majority of the locals down there are happy to have their local roads closed for a small time. There's a few guys on the board who've participated in the targa events & they are by all accounts a blast. One day...

We also have these events here in Spain. they are allowed by the road law provided the average speed is kept below 50 km/h (30 mph), the cars are road legal and they are at least 25 years old.

They are a blast. Since my SC is "only" 24 years old I purchased a BMW 320/6 (e21) to compete. Here is a shot of my car in action.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8...rno3084uc5.jpg

"hen I lived in England I was a member of the local car club and did a few road rallies, which I guess is similar in principle to that which you are referring."

nope - completely different animal. closed road, open speed limit, helet, full cage cars, pace notes etc. same rules as WRC - but classic cars.

i've done targa tasmania 3 times, classic adelaide 6 times and one other tarmac rally, all in full competition class in my 2.7RS replica. there is nothing more fun that involves keeping your clothes on.

keeping your foot flat over a blind crest is certainly a rush...

i've done a few pelican write ups over the years - a search for tasmania or adelaide will find them. happy to answer any questions.

:D I was wondering when we might get a lawyer's response in here.

Is your RS rep black with orange accents? If so I think I've seen some of your write-ups...very cool! And, in one of the shows there was a great shot of your car starting off one of the SSs...one that started on a dam. (?)

I think some of the Porsche Club of America regions actually do this kind of rally. They sound like fun, but nothing beats being able to fly down normal roads at speeds limited only by your ability to safely navigate them. (..which, for me, would still be pretty slow.. :p )

As someone pointed out, the tarmac rallies I'm talking about are very much like pro WRC...only done by amateurs in a wide variety of cars and a wide variety of "classes" and different groups for different levels of competition. It just looks like a lot of fun, mostly because it's not highly competitive and it looks like an event where the priority is having fun and bringing the car home safely, not so much winning the rally.

i think you got things confused there


there are time trial classic rallies, no helmets required, open , public roads, navigating and timed for average speed( as close to the target as possible, not faster or slower then) is the name of the game , anyone can enter, with just about any car as long as it is road legal, tools of the trade ,are compass, mechanical trip computer, maps, no gps.

like these guys here

http://www.motoforum.pl/Magazyn/200517/arcus01.jpg

i'm not saying they all drive like snails
some of em do drive faster then the speedlimit, especially when correcting a mistake, but still , it's all within reason


and there are "RAlly's" all the safety gear you can imagine
closed off public roads, balls out ... timed for speed, you need a racing licence before you can enter, your car has to fit certain specs, cannot be modified for power, weight or suspension in certain classes, tech inspection before and after
your co-pilot has to have a racing licence as well, and you have to work with the standardized roadbook...


like these guys :

http://www.ypresrally.com/imgs/mainh.gif

this type of Rallying is not for the weak of heart, and trust me on this one , they do drive their cars like they stole em, and have cops hot in pursuit...

You do not enter the latter if you cannot afford to wreck it.

Well, in the TV shows I saw, most of the people interviewed were definitely "amateur" racers. I don't know what level of licensing they had, but they were clearly out there to have a good time more than anything. (..I didn't say they drive slow...just respecting their own limits.) Yes, there were a few that were very hard core, but I got the distinct feeling most could care less if they actually win or not.

Maybe Ryan could set me straight on this?

The neat thing about these rallies is they had something for the competition cars (roll cage, helmet, etc.) and something for the average driver. They had new vehicles and classic vehicles, and all were competing together.

maybe not the winning the overal race, but still as fast as possible given the equipment and talent, which means pushing the envelope, not wofting about because they don't care about winning the race... they are all in classes, and each wants to at least not come last

think of it as the type of track racing Jack Olsen does... except not on a track.. same level of commitment to speed

Without a doubt! I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I just got the feeling they were there more for the event than for the winning...if that makes better sense.

But no...no wofting...no Sunday drives...

Its mainly a lack of local interest, you'd have to have a serious car county with almost 100% enthusiasts population, and the twisty roads to do it on. With no objections from the locals, closing off a road for a race is feasable. Would have to be shorter though.

There are several "old" highways that have been replaced by interstates and newer roads, these are your best bet for closing off.

check this for Rallying

http://dump.geenstijl.nl/mediabase/7828/63d42afa/index.html

the ending was obviously not part of the plan, but you can clearly see what i mean with pushing the enveloppe, from the looks of it , a classic-historic rally... these aren't even the ones driving modern cars ( which tend to be slightly more competitive)

:eek: Somebody didn't get the "road closed" sign!!!

don't know the background,

but some farmers and definately the treehuggers too, do not apreciate rallies going round...
especially the treehuggers have been known to do some nasty sabotage work... this could be something like that... dunno...

Weird. I would guess a farmer that just needed to get his chores done and disregarded the whole rally "thing" going on around him.

For the record, I'm a treehugger. But I love rallying. :D

lol , try explaining that to the fanaticals... just make sure you can run fast :D

To everything in life there should be a balance.

We should preserve the beautiful trees and the forests that contain them.

...so twice a year we can drive through them really really fast!!!! :D

we do have a couple of Targas here in the States...

one in Texas...well it's kinda like U.S.A


and the other that I know of is Aridzona

The yellow Thunderbird driven by an older lady was a hoot, aircraftcarrier on a roadcourse. hilarious shunts, lots of older $$$ P's running like they should.
Rika

OK, that is what I would refer to as a tarmac rally, (tarmac = asphalt).
There are events like this in the UK also, the Isle of Mann has a tarmac rally with closed roads for example. I was more thinking about the "accessible to everyone" aspect.
One of the things I like about ralliying in Europe is they race on a mixture of surfaces, often going between dirt, gravel, and tarmac in a single stage. That to me is a real test of a driver.

We were definitely not in that league, but we were in semi-prepped cars. My Mini had a full cage, harnesses and all that, essentially prepped about the same as some of your guys track cars.

Incidentally, in it's final incarnation my little Mini had a 1380cc engine putting out 90bhp at the front wheels (not much, but just think how small and light it is!). That with a low ratio diff that effectively limited its top speed to 100mph in top gear at 7500rpm made it a pretty quick road and hillclimb car, and a whole lot of fun. I really miss it somedays!

don't forget pavement and cobblestoned, dunnu what you guys call em, but here's what they look like

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos...-kembottom.jpg


http://www.cyclingnews.be/hellingen/...l/kemmelB1.JPG

that's the not so steep side of the hill, went up and down that one last saturday in the 944, wet , trust me , it's a challenge ither way , going up or down...,

this time of year , on the tarmac roads leading to the hill, there's also plenty of mudd from the farmers... should see my 944 now, it's black, with plenty of mud spray upwards...

doug - yes, that is my blue/orange car (now blue/silver)

"It just looks like a lot of fun, mostly because it's not highly competitive and it looks like an event where the priority is having fun and bringing the car home safely, not so much winning the rally. "

the events here cater for all. they have touring classes and competition classes. the competition is fierce in the latter.

some are out having fun but a lot push pretty hard. in november, there were 5 or 6 big shunts every day, people turning up in BIG dollar build cars, people with big service crews, people with fuel teams so they could run minimum fuel for each stage (cf: we start with a full tank in the morning and then a full tank at lunch).

you should try and combine the adelaide rally with an Oz holiday -its the start of summer and i'm sure i could find a crew to take you around and lunch is normally at a winery (no booze for us though... - breath test every day)

here some pics from last month. we came 4th - our best result ever.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1166049014.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1166049036.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1166049078.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1166049121.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1166049136.jpg

Very cool Ryan! I love your car. It looks like I'll have to wait another year to see you guys on our "SpeedTV". As for a vacation out your way, I'm afraid that's a long way off ... :(

i've followed your exploits the last few years Obrut- Awesome!!

The Targa NZ is huge here and getting bigger each and every year. Rally is already popular here and the culture is rich from years of club and international level rally which includes Group B in the '80s and WRC.

I pitcrewed for a 924 in the '05 dunlop targa of nz. wasnt in the country to do it again this year. Like Aussie theres the touring and and competitve classes.
Porsche had the biggest turn out with nearly 30 different models. In all, over 170 cars started and 10 days later there were barely 120 left. Cars either crashed out or broke.

its very much a tarmac version of the WRC ( as far as safety and level of competition.) and there are competitiors who follow these around the world.

its used as a huge fundraiser as well and in city centres they often put on demonstrations and rides for charity, and promote road safety.

in NZ our closed road special stages are limited to 200kph. the touring stages between the SS are limited to the posted speed limits and are open to the general public. In '05 they also included special stages at the Pukekohe and Manfield Raceways.

I think last year in the 7 days of the targa we drove 3500km chasing our car to each pitstop- very intense trying to beat a car driving the fun route at up to 200kph while youre limited to 50 or 100kph!

the official site for the nz targa is: www.targa.co.nz

we have Targa Rotorua and/ or Targa Hamilton which are regional before a prelim targa called targa bambina but it looks like theyre canning it for 2007.

an extract from the targanz newsletter re: 2007:
a quote from the lastest newsletter:

pictures of the 924 i crewed for
http://www.groundsky.co.nz/0514WEB/P...1/I11P1135.JPG
http://www.groundsky.co.nz/0514WEB/P...2/I32C5824.JPG
http://www.groundsky.co.nz/0514WEB/P...7/I17L4157.JPG

A Targa is a type of race taking place on public roads. Most famous - the Targa Florio in Sicily.

Porsche celebrated victories in the TF by naming it's new cabrio with rollbar body style the *Targa* in the late 60's. Porsche won more races in the 60's than everyone else combined.


Uhhh, the Australian Porsche Targa is right hand drive.

no offence, but that's a load of bullcrap

a Targa is not a type of Race
a Rally is

they just happen to name the individual Rally's with fancy names, and Targa this , Targa that just happens to be popular...
based on the Targa Florio race from back in the days..

( which technically has little to do with modern day rally's other then that it is on public roads, Rally's these days are multiple stages, not one giant closed of track that is driven for multiple laps like TF used to be ...)


another hint is
it's not WTC World Targa Championship
it's WRC World Rally Championship...