dunno. who woulda thunk a multi trillion dollar war would be started on idiotic intel and a grudge because of daddy?

these guys are nuts...

It's worse than that nostatic.

The Iraq war is a blatant symbolism of the corruption that has infiltrated the depths of our society.

Specifically the current V.P.s company getting a $trillion contract of which there was one, lone oversight commitee which found numerous examples of irregular balance sheets (did someone say enron?). Even that one commitee would have been cancelled had the Republicans had their way.
This would be synonomous to President Hillary deciding the Dept Of Justice was now going to be outsourced to her former lawfirm.

Interestingly enough, the decisions made by this administration, directly against the mountains of evidence by advisors and scholors, has dramatically drawn out the conflict and necessitated further Haliburton services.

In market terms there was always the checks-and-balances triangle of big guv'ment, big corporations, and the consumer.
This administration has done everything it could to permanently damage the working middle class, the historic symbol of American advancement by self-determination and upwards social mobility i.e.:THE AMERICAN DREAM.

Frankly I think that is not the case...and not even plausible enough to discuss. What I do believe is that it is amazing that so many people without access to any intel whatsoever think they know more about it than those with access. I am amazed daily at what I see posted here....why folks even speculate on things they are so ignorant about is beyond me.

Since the VP does not even have a company, your entire premise is flawed...and a bit silly....unless you are joking...Like where you use Hillary as an example of honest dealings...

Gee I would sure like to know how you came up with this generalization when the economy is booming and unemployment is at historical lows.

For some, the economy is doing very well. For many, such as in manufacturing, the economy is not so good. Remember the old adage: "When your neighbor loses his job, it is a recession. When you lose your job, it is a depression". Measure individual debt, foreclosures, bankruptcies. These indicators will give you a more objective picture rather than simple individual obervation. People tend to see what they want to see.

Measuring the economy depends upon who you ask.

That is why you don't ask. You look at statistics.

It is my stock and trade, fint. I deal with statistics (and the people they affect) every day.

And you?

yeah, silly, isn't it? Almost like having tunnel vision and not knowing it. The nerve of people...

http://www.ibrium.se/macdim/TunnelVision_screenshot.gif

Yes I do too. But not financials.

Trust me. When it comes to the economy at the lower half of the scale, "Not all is well behind every picket fence you see".

Out here, we even have military personnel (some of which I have counselled) that use these "payday loan" companies and because of this are denied certain types of clearances. These places can charge up to 400% interest per year and the state legislature has considered initiating a sunset clause on these predators. The indebtedness apparently makes the personnel potential security risks. People, both civilian and military, purchase "rent to own" furniture and appliances, paying, in the long run, multiples of the actual price. Blue Hippo will supply you with a "brand name computer regardless of your credit rating". What the individual gets is essentially a bottom of the line unit and the weekly payments, when multiplied by the number of weeks to be paid, amounts to over double the retail price. It is also a proven fact that lower income people pay higher rates for mortgages, car loans and car insurance, etc. Interesting that those with the least ability to pay wind up paying the most for essentials such as food. (last sentence is a non-objective, highly biased observation on my part)

Like I said, it depends on who you ask.

I think if one asked the average Michigan resident, I think they might say that the economy has worsened. Just a guess.

Do all those "extra jobs created" (above and beyond those lost of course) have comparable wages and benefits, or are they just entry-level service sector positions filled by your buddy Bush's illegal arrivals?

If the new wages are lower, then how does the worker pay for necessitys like health care, etc.
Or rather, who pays for them? As we know money doesn't just come from the air, or the printing press.

Can't afford shoes 'cause you've been laid off. Go barefoot.

Can't afford the utility bills? Get a bucket and carry water back from the river. Balance the bucket on the head for an easier walk.

Is that the great vision of a new America? Spendid.

Lots of folks do stupid things and lots live beyond their means in spite of making a good salary. Lots of folks do not. "Payday loans" are a good example of stupid.

JOHN...you ask many of the right questions. Who are those saying the economy is doing great? How many millions were handedout on Wall Street as bonuses this year? At the same time, how many jobs from major manufacturers were lost to make those "bottom lines" better for the brokers and the stockholders (not to mention the boardroom folks). How many companies can no longer afford to provide even minimum health insurance? How many companies have "restructured" their retirement programs, changing them from defined benefit to defined contribution? How many blue collar and middle management people are working ever longer hours for no increases in earnings, afraid to cut back lest they find themselves out on the street? WHo pays for the mediocal benefits? For many, they go without, praying every day that them, their spouse, or little Suzie/Johnny don't have an accident or get sick. How many companies provide or how many individuals can afford catastrophic event insurance? What percentage of America has no financial reserve and essentially lives from paycheck to paycheck?

I do not post this as an indictment against making money, I just note that things are not being reported because those making the headlines about the economy do not associate with the victims of said economy.

Supported by the fed who would rather pay for two hamburgers wednesday for a hamburger today.
God forbid an inopportune correction in the middle of our free services for our middle-east friends.

Who waited? But, as usual, you ask an irrelevant question. What they spent is, unfortunately water under the bridge. Bush II is president, and we need to curb his profligate spending on useless things.

That may be what occurs. Unless there's a country that can force higher taxes upon the American populace, declaring default is precisely what must happen. We have all those nukes, we can hold off the Chinese, can't we?

Do I need to familiarize you with the real cause of the War of 1812?

He won't understand that graphic you know.

Lots of people make observations that shout out "ignorance", too.

"Lord, let me not criticize my brother until I have walked a mile in his mocossins."

Then again, there are some folks who are born with all the answers, and the rest of us are just lucky to have run into these few. Otherwise, we would continue to wander around in the fog.........

Glad to know you, fint...you have straightened me out.

If only the others here truly understood the depth of your wisdom and the sageness of your advice.

It took me long enough!!!

I can't believe you expect the government to ensure employment. That didn't work in the Soviet Union, Cuba, etc...why would it work here? The problems in Michigan are a direct result of greedy workers and greedy unions who prevented manufacturers from remaining competitive with other areas of the country. If they really want to work...and will accept the wages their labor is actually worth, they can relocate to where there are better jobs...I travel all over the country and have yet to find a place (other than on an Indian Reservation) where there is no employment for anyone willing to work hard. As far as health care, necessities, or anything else they desire...they can budget for them...just like the rest of us do.