Well, it's time for the '06 awards. Let's start with who wastes the most bandwidth.

[lendaddy]

Pat,

Tell Mr. Beagle what should happen to our soldiers when.........Oh, lets say they raid a home of a suspected AQ cell leader in Baghdad.

And Go.

[sammyg2]

Bertbeagle, if you go pack to page 4 of this thread there is a link to what you are asking about.
Here's a direct quote from paste:
"These Iraiq Freedom Fighters have a job, George, kickin your ass out of Iraq. And, by God, they're doing a right fine job of it too.

Freedom Fighters of Iraq, POUR IT ON!"

His post encouraged the terrorists in Iraq to attack and kill US soldiers. No other way to look at it.
I have often wondered how long it would take for him to step over that fine line dances on so often. He is a sick man in need of help.

[speeder]

Actually, he only encourages the "Iraqi Freedom Fighters" to kick our asses out of Iraq in the above quote. That's all I read it as. He has repeatedly stated that he believes that the U.S. military should leave Iraq and the ME immediately, (that is not my opinion at this point, though we certainly never should have gone in the first place).

He is certainly no fan of the U.S. government, but considering the seriousness of accusing him of "calling for the death of U.S. soldiers", which he has never done here, I would at least let his words speak for themselves. Fintstone, for one, gets exceptionally indignant when someone here misquotes him or tries to infer even the most obvious meaning from his posts, always getting lawyerly about not putting words or thoughts in his mouth. (Keyboard).

Maybe Fastpat can clear this up, are you calling for the death of U.S. soldiers in Iraq, Pat?

[artplumber]

Originally posted by speeder
Actually, he only encourages the "Iraqi Freedom Fighters" to kick our asses out of Iraq in the above quote. That's all I read it as. He has repeatedly stated that he believes that the U.S. military should leave Iraq and the ME immediately, (that is not my opinion at this point, though we certainly never should have gone in the first place).

He is certainly no fan of the U.S. government, but considering the seriousness of accusing him of "calling for the death of U.S. soldiers", which he has never done here, I would at least let his words speak for themselves. Fintstone, for one, gets exceptionally indignant when someone here misquotes him or tries to infer even the most obvious meaning from his posts, always getting lawyerly about not putting words or thoughts in his mouth. (Keyboard).

Maybe Fastpat can clear this up, are you calling for the death of U.S. soldiers in Iraq, Pat?

Then there was:

Nevertheless, I can in no way support what they're(US soldiers) doing in Iraq, which is government sanctioned murder and nothing else, and since that's true, I do support their being booted out of Iraq by any means at the disposal of Iraqi's, since the little fuhrer in the White House won't do the honorable thing and evacuate them the fastest way possible.

I sleep quite well, thank you, so would you if your position in this matter were moral.

So while "kill the troops" isn't actually said, the statement is "any means at the disposal of the Iraqi's..."

[livi]

Slightly straying from the original thread subject, are we ?

Anybody appointed the award yet ?

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by speeder
but considering the seriousness of accusing him of "calling for the death of U.S. soldiers", which he has never done here...

You sure about that?

[fastpat]

Originally posted by speeder
Actually, he only encourages the "Iraqi Freedom Fighters" to kick our asses out of Iraq in the above quote. That's all I read it as. He has repeatedly stated that he believes that the U.S. military should leave Iraq and the ME immediately, (that is not my opinion at this point, though we certainly never should have gone in the first place).

He is certainly no fan of the U.S. government, but considering the seriousness of accusing him of "calling for the death of U.S. soldiers", which he has never done here, I would at least let his words speak for themselves. Fintstone, for one, gets exceptionally indignant when someone here misquotes him or tries to infer even the most obvious meaning from his posts, always getting lawyerly about not putting words or thoughts in his mouth. (Keyboard).

Maybe Fastpat can clear this up, are you calling for the death of U.S. soldiers in Iraq, Pat?

No, I've never called for the deaths of any soldier unless convicted of war crimes and I have a problem with the death penalty even then.

I've repeatedly stated that no US soldier need have died in Iraq, because it was wrong to send them there, but no one can defend the illegal war they're engaged in either. If an invasion of a country is illegal, and we all know or should know, that the invasion of Iraq was illegal, then it is a war crime.

The bedrock issue is what would we do if invaded by a gigantic, ruthless, militaristic country "for our own good", to set us free, to give us a new type of government?

Should we do as fintstone and others suggest, welcome them with open arms?

Or should we remove them from our land as fast as possible by whatever means we have at hand?

What would you do?

[fintstone]

Originally posted by speeder
Actually, he only encourages the "Iraqi Freedom Fighters" to kick our asses out of Iraq in the above quote. That's all I read it as. He has repeatedly stated that he believes that the U.S. military should leave Iraq and the ME immediately, (that is not my opinion at this point, though we certainly never should have gone in the first place).

He is certainly no fan of the U.S. government, but considering the seriousness of accusing him of "calling for the death of U.S. soldiers", which he has never done here, I would at least let his words speak for themselves. Fintstone, for one, gets exceptionally indignant when someone here misquotes him or tries to infer even the most obvious meaning from his posts, always getting lawyerly about not putting words or thoughts in his mouth. (Keyboard).

Maybe Fastpat can clear this up, are you calling for the death of U.S. soldiers in Iraq, Pat?

I can think of no other way to interpret his remarks. Apparently no one else can either. Can you? Perhaps you can explain some other way the terrorists can "pour it on" and drive us from Iraq without killing our soldiers...of all people...you are the last one I would expect to defend such a remark.

[lendaddy]

Perhaps "applauded" would have been a better word than "called for".

[Zeke]

Originally posted by livi
Slightly straying from the original thread subject, are we ?

Anybody appointed the award yet ?

Yes, I did a couple of pages back in saying it was "unanimous." I am not a regular here because I tend to get PO'd about some topics.
So, I had no idea one person has wasted so much time, energy and bandwidth as Pat. Actually, I sorta thought the thread would/could be a bit tongue-in-cheek. Not so.

I might make a new thread out of the following thought: I don't think OT forums should exist for the eclusitivity of a certain few who apparently have little to do with the Pelican forums as a whole. I do realize that certain things like a sudden appearance of 959 wheel at a tire shop has to land as a topic somewhere, so the OT forum takes up that function.

However, the Pelican OT forum has always been a sounding board for politics, religion, and personal attacks, none of which have anything to do with motoring or the motoring enthusiast.

To my way of thinking, politics belongs in a political forum and the same with the rest. I'm not saying that a reference can't be made, or the subject won't come up now and then, but to dwell on this stuff here on a Porsche and BMW set of forums is not the way I would run the show.

But, it's not my show, so all I can do is love it or leave it. As I said, I have a tendency to leave it.

One last thought: I know I've showed my ass many times here and on the 911 forum, but I've never seen so many asses shown anywhere than what I see here from many others. Kinda taints the way I see folks when I go to the public events. The WalMart thread forever changed the way I see Porsche owners. And here/yet they were making fun of Corvette owners. ]

Same *****, different day. Everywhere you go. Even Pelican. Too damn bad.

[scottmandue]

[Zeke]

I remember that one, Scott. Just this year. Right on.

[Cdnone1]

Hey Milt
I just got your PM. Glad the dollies are working out. I'll see you Jan 1 bright and early

Steve

[speeder]

Originally posted by fintstone
I can think of no other way to interpret his remarks. Apparently no one else can either. Can you? Perhaps you can explain some other way the terrorists can "pour it on" and drive us from Iraq without killing our soldiers...of all people...you are the last one I would expect to defend such a remark.

But I am not defending his remarks. You are making my point.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Cdnone1
Hey Milt
I just got your PM. Glad the dollies are working out. I'll see you Jan 1 bright and early

Steve

A refreshng change in pace. No, you won't see me. I'm going to OC. They won't know me there.

www.bench-racing.com
http://www.bench-racing.com/html/news.html

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by speeder
But I am not defending his remarks. You are making my point.

Exactly, I remember reading Pat's original post and felt you guys were twisting his words a bit however I hesitated to call you on it for fear of being labeled a (fill in latest anti American slang term).

And I have friends in the armed forces that are in Iraq right now so I certainly don't wish any ill will toward our folks over there.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by scottmandue
Exactly, I remember reading Pat's original post and felt you guys were twisting his words a bit however I hesitated to call you on it for fear of being labeled a (fill in latest anti American slang term).

And I have friends in the armed forces that are in Iraq right now so I certainly don't wish any ill will toward our folks over there.

So I will ask you the same question that Speeder chose not to answer:

Originally posted by fintstone
I can think of no other way to interpret his remarks. Apparently no one else can either. Can you? Perhaps you can explain some other way the terrorists can "pour it on" and drive us from Iraq without killing our soldiers...

[Dottore]

Originally posted by fastpat
No, I've never called for the deaths of any soldier unless convicted of war crimes and I have a problem with the death penalty even then.

I've repeatedly stated that no US soldier need have died in Iraq, because it was wrong to send them there, but no one can defend the illegal war they're engaged in either. If an invasion of a country is illegal, and we all know or should know, that the invasion of Iraq was illegal, then it is a war crime.

The bedrock issue is what would we do if invaded by a gigantic, ruthless, militaristic country "for our own good", to set us free, to give us a new type of government?

Should we do as fintstone and others suggest, welcome them with open arms?

Or should we remove them from our land as fast as possible by whatever means we have at hand?

What would you do?

Well that makes sense.

There are far too many knee-jerk reactions to you, Pat, because of the sheer volume of stuff that you post. I generally appreciate your posts and the one above is surely non-controversial.

I mean how would you guys feel if some militaristic superpower invaded your country, destroyed your infrastructure, installed a corrupt puppet government etc etc? THINK about it.

Fintstone?? I mean if the Chinese invaded Nevada or wherever the hell you live and installed a proxy government because they thought Nevada might be harbouring weapons of mass destruction? You gonna be pleased with that?

What the F___ do you guys expect?

Pat challenges you to think outside of your collectively deeply-medicated and overweight, Fox News and CNN induced stupors once in a while.

The boy goes off the deep end occasionally when he's well into the cups - but who here doesn't? I think this forum would be a much poorer place without him.

Hat's off, Pat.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Dottore
...Fintstone?? I mean if the Chinese invaded Nevada or wherever the hell you live and installed a proxy government because they thought Nevada might be harbouring weapons of mass destruction? You gonna be pleased with that?

What the F___ do you guys expect?
...

What kind of silly analogy is that? If we broke a cease fire with the Chinese and they subsequently defeated the US in a war (deposing a ruthless, murdering dictator) and then allowed us to have elections of our own government and protected us from terrorists while we rebuilt our country...promising to leave as soon as we asked...I would find it odd if a Chinese person (Pat) advocated the terrorist position and encouraged the killing of the Chinese soldiers protecting the poor folks in the US.

What do we expect? We expect Americans to refrain from supporting our enemies during wartime...WTF do you expect?

[lendaddy]

Then lets differentiate between "calling for" and "celebrating" their deaths.

Pat clearly feels that the greater good and the spirit of justice has been served when an Iraqi or insurgent kills one of our boys over there.

I can follow his logic too and I see how he got there.........but it doesn't make it any less fukced up to say it, people here have kids and family over there. It's like cheering on the bar thug that beats the **** outta your brother because he hit on his wife, even if your brother had it coming you back his ass up or at the very least you don't root the other guy on. Have a little tact.