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fastpat 12-31-2006 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moses
I deleted my post. Sorry, Kerri.

Have a safe and happy new year.

I find the posts reveling in the execution tells us much about those celebrating.

It informs us just how similar they are to the executed man.

slakjaw 01-04-2007 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
I find the posts reveling in the execution tells us much about those celebrating.

It informs us just how similar they are to the executed man.

I disagree, the dude deserved to die. Just like OBL does. I would guess that a lot of people includeing myself would enjoy watching OBL hang in times square. And you are gonna tell me that makes me as bad as they are? Give me a break man, these people have killed so many Americans the only justice they deserve is a quick death. Most wouldnt even give them that. How can you be so critical over those who celebrate the only fitting end to Saddams life.

When these guys cut off some white dudes head they throw a ****ing parade in the street celebrateing that they just cut off some white dudes head.

I see nothing wrong with the posts or the posters. Its justice WTF else do you want?

fastpat 01-04-2007 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slakjaw
I disagree, the dude deserved to die. Just like OBL does. I would guess that a lot of people includeing myself would enjoy watching OBL hang in times square. And you are gonna tell me that makes me as bad as they are? Give me a break man, these people have killed so many Americans the only justice they deserve is a quick death. Most wouldnt even give them that. How can you be so critical over those who celebrate the only fitting end to Saddams life.

When these guys cut off some white dudes head they throw a ****ing parade in the street celebrateing that they just cut off some white dudes head.

I see nothing wrong with the posts or the posters. Its justice WTF else do you want?

I don't care what "they" do in the streets of their country, nor do I give one rat's rear end what they do to mercenary's respective heads either.

The Hussein trial should never have happened the way it did, it was a sham and a travesty. The ends do NOT justify the means.

I stand by my position, and your post only strengthens my opinion.

slakjaw 01-04-2007 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
I don't care what "they" do in the streets of their country, nor do I give one rat's rear end what they do to mercenary's respective heads either.

The Hussein trial should never have happened the way it did, it was a sham and a travesty. The ends do NOT justify the means.

I stand by my position, and your post only strengthens my opinion.

Oh yeah? well my dog could beat up your dog!:rolleyes:

Aurel 01-04-2007 07:54 AM

The tasteless display of Saddams hanging has caused at least two childern deaths so far:

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=4904242
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2051037,00.html

The scumbag who shot the video and put it on internet should be sued by the famillies of those children. The viewing of such images is dangerous for kids, as these two suicides demonstrate clearly.

Aurel

slakjaw 01-04-2007 08:02 AM

You gotta be kidding

speeder 01-04-2007 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aurel
The tasteless display of Saddams hanging has caused at least two childern deaths so far:

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=4904242
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2051037,00.html

The scumbag who shot the video and put it on internet should be sued by the famillies of those children. The viewing of such images is dangerous for kids, as these two suicides demonstrate clearly.

Aurel

If they had seen a news story about someone getting hit by a bus, would they have thrown themselves in front of one to "feel the person's pain..."? :confused:

Sorry, but this falls under "News of the Weird", or an extreme example of Darwinism.

Good luck with the lawsuit in Iraq, though.

VaSteve 01-04-2007 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aurel

The scumbag who shot the video and put it on internet should be sued by the famillies of those children. The viewing of such images is dangerous for kids, as these two suicides demonstrate clearly.

Aurel

They should sue the guy that came up with the game "hangman" and Michael Hutchence while they are at it.

I've heard some dumb things today, but you take the cake.

m21sniper 01-04-2007 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slakjaw
I disagree, the dude deserved to die. Just like OBL does. I would guess that a lot of people includeing myself would enjoy watching OBL hang in times square. And you are gonna tell me that makes me as bad as they are? Give me a break man, these people have killed so many Americans the only justice they deserve is a quick death. Most wouldnt even give them that. How can you be so critical over those who celebrate the only fitting end to Saddams life.

When these guys cut off some white dudes head they throw a ****ing parade in the street celebrateing that they just cut off some white dudes head.

I see nothing wrong with the posts or the posters. Its justice WTF else do you want?

Agreed.

fastpat 01-04-2007 06:24 PM

Great work, "W". Shi'ia Militiamen took over Hussein's execution, explaining the video of it.
http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/default.aspx?id=69125

fintstone 01-04-2007 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m21sniper
Agreed.
+1
Slackjaw is da man today!

fintstone 01-04-2007 11:21 PM

This is an excellent op-ed piece on the topic:

Saddam Hussein's last negotiation
By Debra J. Saunders
Thursday, January 4, 2007

Within hours of Saddam Hussein's hanging, the drumbeat began -- as cable-news sages pronounced that the Iraqi scourge's execution will not improve the situation in Iraq. Or, as Newsweek intoned, "Little is gained by Saddam's demise."

These days, the first rule of war coverage is that nothing -- not even military victory -- will improve Iraq's prospects.

The second rule is that everything is botched. So Hussein's trial was not fair, the appeals process was too swift and the execution was insufficiently solemn.

In the 24-hour news cycle, you can kill your own citizens with impunity, subject them to starvation and lead them into an avoidable war. But, if later you are brought to justice, coverage of your trial will be not so much about the carnage as about the "deeply-flawed" trial.

It won't much matter that the defendant admitted that he ordered the deaths of 148 Shiite men and boys in Dujail in 1982. To the American press, justice would have been better served if it had moved with the slothfulness of a California death-penalty appeal. You would think it a good thing for Iraq if Hussein had more time to foment insurgency and thumb his nose at the families of his victims.

Indeed, critics are so busy trying to transform Iraqi prosecutions into an O.J. Simpson trial that they fail to notice that the families of Kurds and Shiites who were tortured and murdered for rebelling against Hussein now know that the Butcher of Baghdad can no longer hurt them. That's why there was dancing in Dearborn, Mich., home to a large community of Iraqi Americans who fled their homeland while under Hussein's rule. Hussein cannot come back, as he did in 1963 after he fled to Syria and Egypt. He will never terrorize his countrymen again. He will hold no more power on this earth. Somehow, that's no biggie.

When you think of all the innocent people who have perished during the war in Iraq, there is something refreshing about seeing the most guilty Iraqi meet his maker. Opinion Journal's James Taranto used the headline: "The World's Smallest Violin."

Oddly, some human-rights groups have their big fiddles out. Or as Richard Dicker, director of Human Rights Watch's International Justice Program, said in a press statement: "The test of a government's commitment to human rights is measured by the way it treats its worst offenders. History will judge these actions harshly."

What nonsense. The measure of a government's commitment should be in how it treats its citizens. Hussein had countless Iraqis killed without a trial. He ordered the death of an 11-year-old boy because he thought it was "the right of the head of state." History will focus on his misdeeds, not the timely execution of a guilty despot.

As for "little is gained" -- do not think that homicidal tinpot dictators do not look at Hussein's fate and shudder. They've just found out that, if deposed, they are not guaranteed final years of luxurious living abroad. Now, they know, there are forces at large who want them to face death before the very people whom they had terrorized and beaten down. This is not the end desired by men for whom dominion over others trumped all.

If this execution were the martyr's end he sought, Hussein would not have greeted U.S. troops who found him in a hole in the ground three years ago with these words: "I am Saddam Hussein, president of Iraq. I want to negotiate."

fastpat 01-05-2007 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fintstone
This is an excellent op-ed piece on the topic:

Saddam Hussein's last negotiation
By Debra J. Saunders
Thursday, January 4, 2007

All of the above is a sigh of relief that there won't be any Saddam Hussein at George W. or George H. W. Bush's war crimes trial(s).

Another Bush family retainer killed for going off the reservation.

Which begs the question, how much longer is America going to tolerate this crime family?

Moneyguy1 01-05-2007 09:09 AM

Um....

I think, hidden in all the rhetoric, is that the execution itself was not carried out even in as dignified a manner as was given to Japanese and German war criminals. The point is not whether the man should have been executed; it was the decorum (or lack thereof) at the execution itself.

Frankly, my personal beliefs is that execution of anyone as dangerous as Saddam was to the human race is a step forward, eliminating forever the spectre of a Napolion coming back from exile to wreak more havoc.

m21sniper 01-05-2007 09:14 AM

Quote:

Frankly, my personal beliefs is that execution of anyone as dangerous as Saddam was to the human race is a step forward, eliminating forever the spectre of a Napolion coming back from exile to wreak more havoc.
Agreed.

fastpat 01-05-2007 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Frankly, my personal beliefs is that execution of anyone as dangerous as Saddam was to the human race is a step forward, eliminating forever the spectre of a Napolion coming back from exile to wreak more havoc.
The ends do NOT justify the means. Would you say the same if the Germans were to lay hands on the little fuhrer in the White House and execute him after a "trial", instead of him being handled by American's?

The only good I can see coming from this event is that, effectively, the Iranian surrogates pulled the lever and sent the film to Tehran immediately, giving the Iranians a quid pro quo they'd been waiting on a long time.

widebody911 01-05-2007 09:56 AM

What I found interesting was the witch hunt to find the guy with the cam phone, and not much interest of the fact that Saddam was turned over to an unruly mob for his hanging.

Reminds of the Abu Graib fiasco - one of the only significant changes in US policy was to ban cameras in the prison.

Rearden 01-05-2007 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911
What I found interesting was the witch hunt to find the guy with the cam phone, and not much interest of the fact that Saddam was turned over to an unruly mob for his hanging.

Reminds of the Abu Graib fiasco - one of the only significant changes in US policy was to ban cameras in the prison.

BFD. I'm sure the 300,000 Iraqis dug up since 2003 are rolling in their mass graves at the thought of Saddam being called names before his death. Untidy, yes. ***** happens.

fastpat 01-05-2007 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rearden
BFD. I'm sure the 300,000 Iraqis dug up since 2003 are rolling in their mass graves at the thought of Saddam being called names before his death. Untidy, yes. ***** happens.
What 300,000 Iraqi's? Even if that many had been dug up, and I've seen nothing indicating more than a few thousand. I'm sure if you dug up the dead from the Reagan/Bush sponsored war between Iraq and Iran, you'd be able to find a whole lot more than 300,000 bodies, which would prove little about Hussein other than he did the bidding of his employers at the time.

That's why Bush was eager to rid the planet of the chief witness against his daddy.

m21sniper 01-05-2007 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
The ends do NOT justify the means. Would you say the same if the Germans were to lay hands on the little fuhrer in the White House and execute him after a "trial", instead of him being handled by American's?

The only good I can see coming from this event is that, effectively, the Iranian surrogates pulled the lever and sent the film to Tehran immediately, giving the Iranians a quid pro quo they'd been waiting on a long time.

In order for germans to come sieze GW Bush they'd actually have to invest in a credible military force first, which AINT happenin'.

LOL.

m21sniper 01-05-2007 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
What 300,000 Iraqi's? Even if that many had been dug up, and I've seen nothing indicating more than a few thousand. I'm sure if you dug up the dead from the Reagan/Bush sponsored war between Iraq and Iran, you'd be able to find a whole lot more than 300,000 bodies, which would prove little about Hussein other than he did the bidding of his employers at the time.

That's why Bush was eager to rid the planet of the chief witness against his daddy.

Who was funding the Iranians Pat?

Oh, right...it was merely a proxy war with the Soviets.

Try to keep your eye on the ball man. ;)

m21sniper 01-05-2007 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911
What I found interesting was the witch hunt to find the guy with the cam phone, and not much interest of the fact that Saddam was turned over to an unruly mob for his hanging.

Reminds of the Abu Graib fiasco - one of the only significant changes in US policy was to ban cameras in the prison.

Not entirely true. The commander was sacked and demoted, and those said to be responsible have been prosecuted.

Just because there are bad apples in a barrel it does not mean that you neccesarily need to change how you make your barrels. ;)

fastpat 01-05-2007 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m21sniper
Who was funding the Iranians Pat?
No one, they funded themselves. Since the Soviet Union had no capability that the Iranians could use, i.e. the Iranian Air Force had equipment superior to anything the Soviets had at the time, not superior numbers, but superior technology, what could they have done. Send in explosives, maybe, but so what. Hussein had been buying Soviet military equipment for a long time by then.

Quote:

Oh, right...it was merely a proxy war with the Soviets.

Try to keep your eye on the ball man. ;)
Heal thyself.

fastpat 01-09-2007 05:55 PM

Yet another article brings more perspective and facts to light about the lynching of Saddam Hussein by Shi'ia militants, particularly why this will prove counter productive for American security. The emphasis in bold is mine.

Quote:

January 08, 2007

SADDAM’S GOODBYE CURSE

The Bush/Cheney Administration has never concealed its sneering contempt for international law or world public opinion. Even so, the lynching of President Saddam Hussein of Iraq established a new nadir for America and shocked the entire globe.

This sordid act, which grossly violated international law, the Geneva Conventions, and basic human decency, provoked a well-deserved storm of criticism around the globe against the Bush/Cheney Administration. It also rekindled demands for an international abolition of the death penalty.

Washington professed surprise and denied blame for this disgusting spectacle. More lies. Saddam had been under US guard in a US-run prison in Baghdad’s US-run Green Zone. He was transferred under US guard to a US-run execution prison. What did US officials think would happen when they turned him over to a raging lynch mob of vengeful Shias? A parade?

The United States has already been heavily criticized for stage-managing the Soviet-style show trial and rigged kangaroo court that condemned Saddam and two of his closest henchmen.

It’s clear Iraq’s deposed leader was hurriedly executed to prevent him from revealing embarrassing details about his long collusion with the US, Britain, and Arab states.

Saddam’s principal crime was launching an unprovoked war against Iran that cost over one million casualties. This crime was never mentioned in President Hussein’s trial because, at the time, his principal accomplices were the United States, Britain and the Arab oil monarchs. Dead men tell no tales.

Ironically, Saddam’s courage and dignity on the gallows will reinforce his claim to martyrdom and make him the hero in death that he certainly was not in life. This process has already begun.

By contrast, the UN’s new South Korean secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, who was maneuvered into office by Washington, shamefully supported Saddam’s execution even though the UN has long opposed the death penalty, and its human rights chief, Louise Arbour, had condemned the brutal execution . This was an inauspicious start for a timid yes-man.

This week, the Bush/Cheney Administration is widely expected to announce plans to deploy another 20,000 or more troops to Iraq and allocate billions more for the war effort and economic reconstruction. This will be George Bush’s petulant reply to the bipartisan Iraq Study Group’s wise proposal that all US combat forces withdraw from Iraq within a year.

Senior American generals charged with Iraq, including Gen. John Abazaid and Gen. George Casey, openly disagreed with Bush’s plans for a `surge’ in US troop deployment. These able officers told media they didn’t need more troops. They warned additional US troops would deter Iraq’s Shia regime from developing its own security forces and keep it dependant on the US and death squads.

These statements were a shocker. American generals are not supposed to publicly disagree with the president. Both officers have just been replaced in command. Gen. Abazaid, who speaks Arabic and understands Iraq, is retiring early, in disgust, say friends.

Casey and Abazaid follow another fine officer, former Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki, who choose duty to America over career. He was forced to retire by the White House after publicly stating a minimum of 300,000 US troops would be needed to pacify Iraq. The 140,000 US troops currently in Iraq, and the 80,000 or so mercenaries(`civilian contractors’ in Pentagon and media doublespeak) supporting them, are stretched to the breaking point and hard pressed to defend their own bases and vulnerable supply lines.

Iraq’s western Anbar Province has become a Ft Apache for the US Marines, who are barely able to defend their own besieged bases. Iraq’s Sunni resistance forces have almost defeated American forces there in spite of massed US air, artillery, and armor support.

Many US senior military officers privately say it is small wonder Bush, who styles himself the `war president,’ is so deficient in military experience and knowledge. A few months in the Texas Air National Guard evading wartime military service during Vietnam certainly did not prepare him to wage two wars. The real power behind the throne, VP Dick Cheney, also avoided military service, claiming he was `too busy.’

Responsible presidents know when to listen to their generals, and when to retreat from stalemated or lost wars. If Bush does send thousands more troops to Iraq, he will be risking more American lives in a desperate, 11th-hour political gamble to show voters he has a new plan to resolve the horrible mess in Iraq that he created.

The White House’s last gamble may call for stationing the new troops in and around Baghdad to end the anarchy in Iraq’s capitol and reinforcing embattled US units in Anbar Province.

But most of the new troops will come from US units currently in Iraq that were due to be withdrawn, or are US-based troops slated for deployment to Iraq. Morale among US occupation forces is already rock bottom. This news about delayed departures and accelerated deployments could ignite the same kind of malaise and indiscipline experienced by US troops in the later part of the lost Vietnam War. It could also get yet more US troops stuck in the Iraqi quagmire.

But 20,000-30,000 more US troops thrown into the cauldron of Iraq will make little military difference. One hundred fifty thousand or more might, but the US has run out of soldiers. Even massive reinforcements will not resolve the basic problem of Iraq’s post-Saddam political instability and the inability of its component groups to forge national consensus.

If Bush pours more troops into this a lost war, he will fall into the trap of many bad gamblers who double up their bets in a reckless effort to recoup previous losses.

Bush continues ignoring his generals while still heeding the siren song of the pro-Israel neoconservatives around him. Their goal is not a stable Mideast, but total destruction of Iraq, then Iran.

Current Republican presidential front-runner Sen. John McCain has joined Bush and Cheney in urging more troop be sent to Iraq. All three have clearly lost touch with reality and America’s basic values.

Call it Saddam’s curse.


copyright Eric S. Margolis 2007
http://www.ericmargolis.com/archives/2007/01/saddamas_goodby.php


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