Installing Slate Floor Tile

[trekkor]

Originally posted by rcecale

My thoughts are, with a wet saw, there isn't a lot of dust, but rather spattered "mud" being sprayed around by the spinning saw blade?

Randy

The tub and booth will catch all of the thrown off dirty water.
Slate water is ridiculously filthy. Stains everything.

The tiles are soft, you won't hurt the blade in the least.

I expect you will spend at least 16 days setting your floor.
At $35-50 per day for a rental, I think a cheap-o saw may be you best option.


KT

( put hot water in the saw tray and warm for your water/sponge bucket...ahhhhh! )

[rcecale]

Originally posted by trekkor
I expect you will spend at least 16 days setting your floor.
At $35-50 per day for a rental, I think a cheap-o saw may be you best option.


KT

Exactly! I wouldn't be surprised if it takes me longer than that. I'll probably do a little each night after work, and spent the majority of my weekend time doing this, so 16 days seems a bit optimistic to me. I'll be much better off in the long run by pruchasing the saw.

Besides, there are a few more areas of the house that can benefit from some nicely set tile. The guest bath, the foyer, even the steps leading upstairs...some nice slate risers in between the wood treads will look great!

Bert, nice looking saw you have there. Unfortunately it's probably worth much more than what I'm going to be paying for the Qep model. Appreciate the offer though!

Randy

[BertBeagle]

Originally posted by rcecale
Bert, nice looking saw you have there. Unfortunately it's probably worth much more than what I'm going to be paying for the Qep model. Appreciate the offer though!

Randy

The Qep looks, from the pic, to be a nice saw and at that price you could simply pass it on to Habitat after you are done and not worry about keeping it forever.

I have rented tools before and been very disappointed at the condition. One example: Last year I rented a magnetic drill from the tool rental at Lowe’s. A good used one can be hundreds of $’s and I only needed it for one hole. I ended up rebuilding it to get the slop our of the gibbs in order to drill and ream the quality hole I needed for a dowel pin. A 45 min. job ended up being all day counting time to pick up and return the drill. I returned the drill in far better condition than I rented it in. When I told the rental counter guy about my experience and of rebuilding the tool he treated me like I had potentially ruined his tool. Go figure. I told him he should actually give my money back plus some.

I was hoping to get substantially more for mine. If you are a tool geek and plan to do more brick paver / tile work then my saw would be more of what someone would want. If not then the Qep looks like the ticket for one job.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by turbo6bar
Randy, I bought the Chicago Electric with sliding tray (not the bridge saw you have pictured) and am still using it today. My brother and I have laid down several thousand square feet (lost count a long time ago) using that junker saw, and it has served well. In my opinion, you're not going to break that saw, but you probably will wear out the blade in no time. I haven't cut slate before, so maybe the blade will be fine.
regards,
jurgen

I have purchased loads of tools from Harbor Freight and most do fine for what little I use them for.

One very important part is what Jurgen mentioned above is that their saws and cutting wheels are worthless. Buy the tool at HF but get a good saw wheel at Lowes or Home Depot (buy two, one as a spare just in case) to use on the job.

Bought a sawsall from HF recently and the tool was fine, but their blades were like butter trying to cut 18 gauge steel. Got some from HD and worked like a champ. Learned my lesson.

[trekkor]

Saw booth:




Current project:





I get to grout next week.


KT

[rcecale]

Great looking tile job! Are you sure you don't wanna come to Atlanta???

Great idea for the booth too. Looks easy enough to build with some 1/2" PVC. Will save a lot in the clean up, I'm sure.

Well, I got the Qep saw on order. Should be here in 7 - 10 business days, so they say. No hurry though, I still have plenty of flooring to pull up and screw down.

My next trick is going to be leveling. There are a few places that are noticably lower and/or higher. Have you done any work with leveling compounds? I've seen some products at HD which claim to be self-leveling. Just pour in place and let it do it's thing. Not so sure I trust that it's as easy as that.

Once I get the rest of the tile up, I'l start posting some pics.

Randy

[trekkor]

The self leveling material is very good. You MUST use it according to the instructions.

Anything over 1/16" out in 4 feet should be addressed- IMO.

I like to check the subfloor first. Hunt for high spots. Punch down the nails and using a power planer remove a layer of wood. I attach a shop vac onto the planer exhaust because it is crazy messy.

After the Hardiebacker is installed, hunt for the low spots and mark them with a crayon. Coat those areas with the Level Quik primer.

Mix the Level Quik to the consistancy of pancake batter.
Pour it into the center of your low depression and using a straight edge that will span the depression, "work" the leveling material over the low spot.
Smooth out the edges with a plastering trowell... Feather them.

Allow the material to set-up overnight even though it says you can work on it sooner. it really needs the extra time.


KT

[rcecale]

Okay, all the linoleum has been removed and the floor has been screwed down. It took almost 10 Lbs of 8x2" deck screws, but it feels very firm. I've walked the entire floor and have not heard a single squeak.

I am, however, concerned about one area.

Right smack in the middle of the kitchen, I seem to have a "bowl". I used a 6' long straight edge and have found a dip, in one direction, of almost 1/2" and going perpendicularly, a dip of about 1/4". You can see what I mean in this pic.



Should I do something to address this now, or should I just wait and fill in as much as I can when I thinset the hardiback into place?

Randy

[trekkor]

Level Quik is good for 1" per pour, so wait until after you install the backer and fibertape all the joints.

Good job on "screwing off"

How long did it take? Did you use a sheet rock screwgun?


KT

[rcecale]

Ha!!! Who knew "screwing off" could be such hard work?

Alritey, sounds like the next step is laying down the hardibacker then. GREAT!!!

For the screw job, it took half a day yesterday, and most of today. Would have gotten more done yesterday, but I ran out of screws.

I didn't use a gun at all, except for a pair of drills. My cordless with a drillbit and my 1/2" drive for setting the screws. Would have taken a lot less time, I suppose, if I didn't pre-drill, but it just seemed the thing to do.

For the hardibacker, I think I'll be picking up this nailer from Northern Tool.


Hopefully it doesn't take too long to come in!

Randy

[trekkor]

Good! Set the compressor to a fairly high PSI rate ( 100-120 )

You want the nails to set flat, not sink or sit proud.

I "chase the high sitting nails after installing each board and sink a hand nail next to each one that sinks too deep. "You can't overnail a subfloor".

Use 1 1/4" nails. 120 to a coil.

Wear ear plugs, hold the gun in you left hand and aim/guide with the right. Two handed gun work will save your elbow from the rebound.

Make sure the nail gun you are buying is set-up for repeat nailing with the trigger held down. The lever on the nose trips the hammer when you touch your target. You will get faster than you compressor can keep up with.

Let 'er rip!!


KT

[rcecale]

Got another quick question for you, Trekkor.

In a few places on the floor, there are spaces between the sheets of plywood. Some of these spaces are a good 1/4" wide.

These spaces are filled with what appears to be drywall mud...plaster. The stuff breaks apart with just my fingers. My guess is that this was just filler to help the linoleum not get "creases".

Should I refill these gaps with plaster, or just make sure they're filled in with thinset while I'm laying the hardiboard?

Randy

[trekkor]

Fill with thinset when you comb the floor with the 1/4 x1/4 notched trowell during the backer install. The joints between the backer don't have to be tight either, as you will be fiber taping with thinset there, too.


KT

[rcecale]

Great! Thanks for the QUICK reply!

Randy

[porsche930dude]

its always a bit of a messy job installing the hardibacker because when you nail it down the mortar splats out the edges. these things make life fun

[trekkor]

I like to dry-set each piece of backer, mark the subfloor with a crayon, then spread the thinset to the lines...Less mess.


KT

[JavaBrewer]

Ageed. I cut & position all the backer, pencil the pieces, and then pick up and start in with the thinset. I keep the seams between boards ~ 1/4 to 1/3" wide and use fiberglass mesh tape and more mortar to fill.

It's surprising how labor intensive the screw down is. I'm no pro like KT, and I like the piece of mind with screws, so I used my corded electric drill to drive the screws sold by the underlayment co.

Outstanding prep makes an outstanding result possible.

[trekkor]

The cool thing about using the proper amount of acrylic modified thinset under the backer is, once it cures, the backer is laminated to the subfloor as well as mechanically fastened. No air spaces that can move, potentially causing cracks in the grout or tile above.

Nails or screws, it's your choice. I've done both. Neither have ever failed on me.

I've installed 10's of thousands of square feet of this stuff.
Screwing the backer takes about 10 times as long.

From what I've seen, most people, pros included, do not take these steps seriously.
They skip the under-backer thinset, joint taping, priming and leveling.

At least it makes it easier for me to tear it out and redo it


KT

[trekkor]

Also, stagger the joints between the backer like a brick layout.
They state the 4 corners should never meet in any given place.


KT

[rcecale]

Originally posted by dmoolenaar
Ageed. I cut & position all the backer, pencil the pieces, and then pick up and start in with the thinset. I keep the seams between boards ~ 1/4 to 1/3" wide and use fiberglass mesh tape and more mortar to fill.

It seems that this method will allow for a tighter, more custom fit. Count me in!

It's surprising how labor intensive the screw down is. I'm no pro like KT, and I like the piece of mind with screws, so I used my corded electric drill to drive the screws sold by the underlayment co.

It took quite a few hours (and would have torn my knees up for sure had I nt used knee-pads) but it was well worth the effort. My cordless is only a 12 volt, so it would have been a little weak at times to set the screws all the way. That's why I used it only to pre-drill for the screws. I chased it using my 1/2" drive corded, which has plenty of power for setting screws.

Outstanding prep makes an outstanding result possible.

Truer words were never spoken. (or typed )

I'm all about putting lots of effort into doing the prep work the correct way. I would hate to do all this work, just to have it look like schit...or worse...to have it all come apart on me.

Randy