Automatic License Plate Recon

[kach22i]

ALPR video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j_On_1zRig

Oh Canada...................................and I thought "Big Brother" was in the USA.

[widgeon13]

Wonder if he can give me a colonoscopy from that computer as well?

[91S2]

Those are being used throughout the US as well. They're just being introduced slowly... very expensive

[john70t]

GM already has those.
It's called OnStar (GPS), manditory installed on every '06 vehicle and later.

[HardDrive]

Currently being used in LA to retrieve stolen cars.

I don't see what the big deal is actually......

[the]

Doesn't bother me. Certainly is nothing compared to red light cameras, which in many states automatically send tickets to the registered owner of the car, often with no law enforcement involvement (reviewed only by a private company). Then the owner is forced to show up in court and defend himself, even if he wasn't the driver.

If being required to register your car, keep the registration current, and display a license plate on your car with a current registration sticker isn't "big brother," than I don't really see how this ALPR system is "big brother." You have no expectation of privacy as to your license plate, to the contrary, it is a very public display of identification. You have to expect that it can be "run" through the computer by law enforcement at any time, for any reason.

The ALPR system seems to only run the plate for purposes of identifying stolen, unregistered or uninsured cars. It is just a tool, it doesn't issue a ticket. It just is an efficient way of checking many plates for narrowly defined issues. From that point, it is the law enforcement officer's decision as to what to do with the information.

Doesn't raise the constitutional issues that a red light camera raises, not even close.

To the extent that it helps retrieve stolen cars, or keep unregistered or uninsured cars off the road, that's good.

Not all technology is automatically "big brother," IMO.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally posted by HardDrive
...I don't see what the big deal is actually......

The "big deal" is the Big Brother potential for this technology.

I've got to admit that it sounds as though the potential for good with this is huge; but to my mind that only means the potential for abuse is even larger. I suppose the unreasonable search issues have already been explored...but I can't imagine that it won't be long after these are in widespread use (if they aren't already) that it'll be found someone abused the knowledge the system provided. Oh well, I hope the abuse is FAR outweighed by the good it does or the bad it prevents.

[svandamme]

they have a unit here in Rotterdam
they are on the look for licence plates that have no insurance, no road tax, no road safety certificate

Dutch authoroties excell at ripping off the populace, Dutchies keep telling dumb Belgians jokes , but ultimately no belgian would tolerate the crap they tolerate , such as 50% special tax on any new vehicle, and then the VAT is added to that on top...
if you fly from Schiphol, and you happen to have outstanding speeding tickets, or parking tickets, you won't fly till you pay... lol

[the]

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena
The "big deal" is the Big Brother potential for this technology.

I've got to admit that it sounds as though the potential for good with this is huge; but to my mind that only means the potential for abuse is even larger. I suppose the unreasonable search issues have already been explored...but I can't imagine that it won't be long after these are in widespread use (if they aren't already) that it'll be found someone abused the knowledge the system provided. Oh well, I hope the abuse is FAR outweighed by the good it does or the bad it prevents.

So as used, it's ok, and it's just the potential for misuse/abuse that is troubling?

The potential for misuse/abuse of information and technology is already everywhere. Pretty much your every move is tracked. There are cameras everywhere. Every website you visit could be tracked. Your credit card and social security information is stored in all sorts of places and your spending habits and places you visit can be tracked. Your cell phone calls are all all documented to the minute or second, and you can often be tracked by your cell phone. Etc. etc. etc.

This license plate system doesn't seem to provide much information to anyone - it just scans plates and cross references them with the existing DMV database, and sounds an alarm when it gets a hit.

[the]

Hey Stijn, I saw a piece on the news about the Dutch traffic system they are apparently trying in a bunch of areas. Basically goes like this:

There are no traffic rules! The intersections are not signal or stopsign controlled, but are all roundabouts. The only traffic rule is the person on the right has the right of way. Otherwise, anything goes. Go fast? No problem. Go slow? Ok. Park in the middle of the street? Fine.

The theory is people are safer drivers when there are no rules because it is unpredictable. They have to always look out for "the other guy" doing something crazy. So everyone is ultra-attentive.

Have you seen that??? How does it work?

[svandamme]

the roundabout thing is nothing new, look at the UK , they are everywhere... Holland is not leading in that area..

further more, that test you speak off is just one town, in a rural area

the city is still riddled with traffic lights everywhere..

right from my office here, there's a road to use that road to get to the big shopping mall thing near my house... it's maybe 2 miles
the first mile has one traffic light, but near the mall, there's 5 traffic light crossings in half a mile... and it's all out of synch, they could easely make that in to one big roundabout(big oval more like it) and it would stop the jams on saturdays..

but they won't do that, because it would simply move the problem elsewhere...

[NICKG]

they have use alpr in NJ...the town i live in has some of the cruisers equiped with it. It is in wide spread use in nj. Any thingh to fleece the common man is fair game in New Germany

[91S2]

What's best is that this should shut up the ACLU who clame (at least in my neck of the woods) that police racially profile when running license plates. You can't get much more unbiased than this.

[LakeCleElum]

It's just an automated way to running checks on Veh. plates that were previously entered manually. A side benefit is that the officer is no longer distracted by by looking at the plate and typing in the data.

[Z-man]

Anyone else notice that the nice police officer WASN'T wearing his seatbelt?

Besides that, I really have nothing to hide. And given the fact that they are after folks who most likely will cause my insurance rates to go up (like drivers with revoked licenses, drivers without insurance...etc), I am all for finding these types of violators quickly and safely.

-Z-man.

[widgeon13]

Have you ever seen a police officer wearing a seatbelt?? Not me. They're exempt. Don't want to get any donut sugar on the seatbelt.

I'm just as happy they are using this technology, sick of *********s driving around w/ no insurance and registration. Then they hit somebody and get some asshat lawyer to defend them.

[pmajka]

Hmm stock symbol????

[Joeaksa]

1984 run wild....

[Grady Clay]

Here are a couple of technical links about ALPR.

http://www.nditech.net/us/homelandsecurity/alpr/
http://www.pipstechnology.com/alpr/

One of the threads claims these uses:

Homeland Security special operations
Narcotics and drug interdiction
Border Patrol / enforcement
Covert / overt intelligence gathering
Red light enforcement
Stolen vehicle detection
Airport security
AMBER alerts
Surveillance
Criminal warrants
Counter-terrorism
Ports of entry
Theme park security
Perimeter security


Who remembers that a few years ago at the Super Bowel a “face recognition” technology was tested. I understand it was very (technically) successful but socially & politically incorrect.

This morning the Today Show had a voicemail-to-email translator.

What if your new car (in addition tospeed, G-load, etc) also has GPS recording in the name of safety for accident recreation?

I agree with DavidI that the technology has valid uses and is technically legal (when deployed in a public environment or with a legitimate court warrant.)

I am concerned for our ‘free’ society. When the technical ability exists to track and monitor your and my every movement (car), conversation and attendance; will it be used? I think so. The question is how.

What legal constraints should there be?

Another question is how those constraints should be enforced. I noticed reports of CIA/FBI agents refusing to interrogate “enemy combatants” for fear of being charged with war crimes.

We can’t make the technology disappear. We can require it to be used responsibly.

What if my face matches some criminal, I mention “terrorist” in a cell phone conversation, post on this thread, and I drive up to a MoveOn meeting? Improperly used, all these technologies could have me ‘profiled.’

ALPR is just another technical piece of a very serious issue. I want to make sure these technologies can’t be used improperly.


I think I may re-read Orwell.


Best,
Grady

[HarryD]

Originally posted by john70t
GM already has those.
It's called OnStar (GPS), manditory installed on every '06 vehicle and later.

Yes, and quite discomforting if you think of the other uses beyond those shown on the commercials.

Think of the potential to misuse any of these "features" by law enforcement or an individual (or group) if they can unlock your car remotely, start your car remotely, know your location, etc...

While the commercials show the uses as benign or life saving, the other side of the coin is very, very, dark.