Mike, Markus, Moses.

Would you die to save the life of your child?

If so why?

Technically, Buddhism teaches the concept of no soul. I do not have a complete understanding of this but that is what I have read.

Of course. That's an easy one. It makes sense both intellectually and evolutionarily. I'm nearly 50 years old. The reproductive potential of my children exceeds my own.

I don't mean to oversimplify and if my child were in danger, I would never actually give reproduction even a passing thought. We seem to be hardwired to protect our young. Not unique to our species, by the way.

Then put a C note in an envelope and send it to me, and then U can be sure of one thing...you've been scamed..

If life is indeed pointless, this thread is even more so.

that's one way to be Zen about things...

Ah but what if the child was below the age of childbearing, you have no way of know if that child will be fertile when mature while you... even at 50... could hook up with a 20 year old female and carry on your genes.

I'm tired of it all, this is just meaningless banter.

Man has a saving grace, whether U believe in someafter or not, whether it is irational or rational. That saving grace is mans capacity to LOVE.

And like Freud said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" So maybe it is best not to over analyize, just except it as it is and move on with the rest of your life.

One thing to Moses, your so wrong about Thearpy being a virtual fraud. It maybe an imperfect science practiced at times by incompetents but it does help. Medicine in the 18th century consisted of bleeding people to lessen the bad humors, so one could say of medicine in the 18th century that it was run by a bunch of Ignorant Quacks. Yet medicine has progressed, and in 100 years they are gona look at what U take as state of the art and shake their heads thinking what a crude mtherfking Quack he was.

U know come to think of most MDs are arrogant little fkers who think they know more about my body than I do, They don't. They think that they know something, that they are smart, well they arn't they are crude little quacks that are powerless to do much of anything. In most cases the truth of the matter is it is best to avoid MDs, as they are more likely to kill U tha cure you. When U do get sick and go to them theygive you a fancy diagnoise throw up ther hands and say theres nothing we can do for you except keep U comfortable till you die. I could have done that myself alot cheaper by buying a baggie of H on the corner.

Buddism is about enlightenment. The life cycle is about suffering, desire leads to more suffering and thus reincarnation (truer meaning of Karma than what most think). The way to get off the wheel, is cessation of desire, which will lead to enlightenment.

Ergo, hanging on to your Porsche (and other worldly goods) will preclude you from reaching enlightenment, which is what the religion is basically about.

Christianity is about buying your way into heaven (IMO), which does not preclude owning a Porsche, as long as you still have enough money to donate to charities, help the needy, etc.

This is of course a very simplistic way of looking at complex thological systems, it is however, fairly sound.

It is that, and perhaps only that making our journey bearable.

I don't deny the existence of God, the soul or the afterlife. Not at all. They are very personal truths that we discover on our own and in our own way.

i never hold on to my Porsches. sold my 924. sold my 2.4S targa, busy gutting/sellng the 3.2, and the 944 will eventually take a hike as well...obviously i'lll have a new one by that time, in fact i'm going to have a look at a 944S tomorrow... nobody's perfect... Buddha even covered that ...

Interesting first paragraph.

What do U think this is a Led Zepplin song...

I have no idea, never liked Led Zepplin, never bought an album.

Nothing personal, just keeping nostatic honest.

U know Moses when U came to this Board and asked for a bit of help with a problem with U Dad, you were asking for and got a little Thearpy. It allowed U to talk and out of that discussion you were able to come up with a conclusion as to how to handle the situation in an equitable manner.

Anyway Love is the one thing that transcends the grave. Thats the one thing U can take with you.

God, the soul or the afterlife aren't objective, metaphysical truths?

(Keeping in mind that something can be unknown to all humans, but still be an objective truth - for example, 1,000 years ago, man thought the sun revolved around the earth, but the objective truth was the opposite. Even though we didn't know it, or were mistaken, the objective truth was there).

Where have U been..on a desert isle with Gilliagn....the song is Stairway to Heaven..

The devil is in the details though. It is about attachment. That does not necessarily mean that you have to lead an ascetic lifestyle. There is more to it than that.

No doubt this board is a great resource. A collection of bright folks with good ideas and great humor.

I've always thought of therapy as a sort of back rub for the psyche. Why not pay someone to listen to your crap when your friends are tired of it? Like a back rub, it may feel good but I'm not sure how much good it's doing. I've never been in therapy myself. I'm not a good candidate.

not really. Just imposing your view of what you think is Buddhism and what you assume I think/know/do. That isn't about keeping me honest, it's about your ego ;)

So U feel alot of pain, hearbreak and sorrow, and sometimes you wish you could do so much more.

but you are not most people. It does considerable good for many people. With issues of the heart/mind, if you don't believe in it, it likely won't do much for you...

filling me with such existential despair...

Actually, I know very little about Buddhism and had to look up the details. The data comes from Wikipedia, which is sort of like the lowest common denominator that registered users can agree upon. Sorry to disappoint, not about ego.

well, if you're taking someone to task about something (a complex metaphysical topic) that you only learned about today from wikipedia, then how is that *not* about your ego?

eeh, don't worry bout it Ryan ,

the fun part of Buddhism is that it's very open

the basic truths are there, they are very easy to agree with

all the rest around it , is just up for grabs and personal interpretation... in the end , all one can be expected to do , is try and be good... at least that's how i read it... wether Nostatic sees it in the same way is another thing, but ultimately that's quite irrellevant... difference in thought is encouraged..

and if you are lazy, unconvinced, not interested or simply do not care... no problem you won't go to hell, nobody is threatening anyone in believing anything... it's ok to be an random/average human...just be good...

Yeah Tabs, I do. Truth is my job is slowly breaking me down. But I'm truly OK with that. It's part of the price. I could try to remain a bit more detached I guess but it's just not the way I am. I am tremendously grateful for the opportunities I've been given. If the price I must pay is emotional exhaustion, that's fair. I've been in 9 to 5 grind-out-the-day jobs before. They are much worse.

Last night I woke up at 2 AM worried about a patient with a confusing radiology report. I stayed up the rest of the night worrying and planning. Last month I attended two funerals. One because my patient lost a child. I can't count the times I've cried with my patients. Too many times. It's true my job can be filled with heartbreak and sorrow, but there's joy too.

When I'm done I'll be exhausted and spent, but the pain I've endured will be nothing compared to the guy who breaks his back in the coal mines or watches his children starve in some third world country. I'm lucky.

Well now U know why you were one of the 3 that I picked.

The pain you feel is the expression of the love that you feel. If you didn't care (didn't love) , you wouldn't have any feelings about what U do. OK.

I beg to differ with Nostatic...you would make a good canidate for Thearpy. U tend to avoid the pain by slipping into the roll of scientist. Cold hard unfeeling facts. Thats how U push the pain away. Sometimes when U go on overload, you need to put the load down. But be aware that when U do so your not quiet on center with yourself. Make sense?

I'm not the last word...that is the point of the whole thing. It is a personal journey.

Ok, you're right, I'm wrong. Done.

it really isn't about right and wrong...those concepts are constructs where we attach a certain outcome. One of the biggest challenges from a Buddhist perspective is getting away from "me." I struggle mightily with it. I'm not trying to say you're right or wrong, but merely point out that almost everything we say and do is about us and our world rather than other people. We impose our own ideas and will on others because it seems to clarify and strengthen our personal world view. In the end though, that lense is quite clouded by our own biases and attachments, and in fact just makes life harder. The trick is to try and recognize it and then act accordingly. Very difficult, as it runs in the face of human nature...

Nostatic, I just tend to wallow in my own excesses, and Mother keeps telling me I'm a selfish ba$tard.

you have a special dispensation...you are the the antiBuddha

That's the problem with human nature-its egocentric, but how could it be any other way? As Nostatic has alluded, to work against these innate drives takes a herculean effort,not just once or twice, but sustained,because our default setting, if you will, is set on us, as survival necessitates it should be. The only blessing is that we are capable of abstract thinking-We can choose a course of action and apply it-in theory or in actuality being able to 'reject' as course of action. The depressing thing is that we are hard wired towards egocentricity or selfishness, which is always with us.

Adequate question, indeed!

Emotionally and in practice I would not hesitate to risk my life for my child.

However, from a genetic survival calculation it is not obvious I should. Firstly I am still in a fertile age, secondly I have four children to protect and support. If I die it is possible that my genes totally would have less chance of surviving, than if one of my children die.

Harsh but biologically plausible.

And thanks! Silly me got all warm hearted from some of your responses.

Not silly at all.

Thanks!

And how are you today, tabs ? Your benevolent concern for our Pelican brothers well being is likewise warm hearting. But what about you ? Everything alright ?

Last summer my Big Airdale George died. I had left both dogs out on a hot summer day and George couldn't take it (he was nearly 12 years old). I felt guilty that I had left him out, that I should have known better. I told him I was sorry and please forgive me. That was OK. For a coupla months I was just bothered and feeling sad about George, I couldn't put my finger on it. Then I realized that George had been part of my life in CA, and that he was gone now to. Since then I havn't felt sad about George until I just wrote this.

I'm not going to sit here and tell U that I don't have problems that cause me stress and that sometimes I get bent outa shape. The stresses and problems that I have aren't internaly based, but are external to me. For instance the lawsuit I was in caused alot of stress, it was a matter of a fairlily large amount of money and one just didn't know what or when the outcome would be or take place.

I would say that things are going pretty good for me, the money is coming back in and my health is generally good. I think the next step for me is going to be putting some physical activity back into my regime. I tend to change things slowly over time.

Like Clint Eastwood said, "A mans got to know his limitations." Everyman has his limitations on what he can and can't do. I feel that everything has its own time and place, and when your ready to do something you do it.

I see what you mean, tabs and I agree. On the subject of Clint Eastwood and his sayings, I should have told myself " Do I feel lucky today, punk?", today at work.

After a whole day with patients, mostly teenagers with asthma and allergies, I sat down for a coffee with some of the nurses. Suddenly they all start to laugh pointing at my crouch. Turns out I have a big hole in my pants there. My underwear for the day, with 60' bikini girls, showing very clearly.

At this point the whole day is starting to make sense. Every patient had been acting kind of weird, unfocused. Particularly the last patient. A 17 year old girl with her mother. Both a bit 'agricultural' and both obviously dressed up their best for the doctor. The girl with a pretty amazing set of front bumpers and a deep cleavage. She just couldn´t look me in the eyes when we talked, constantly trying to stop giggling. Seeing as they did not act like Einstein´s lost cousins, I made an effort to explain how she should take her asthma medication. Ended the lesson asking if she had understood. Looking like she snapped out of a haze, she looked me in the eyes going -"erh, what ??"

Like I said, it all made sense later that afternoon..

When Johnny Cash recorded the Trent Rezor Song "Hurt" something must have been going on with Cash. He was allready ill or he knew his wife wasn't well and needed an operation that she sumbed to. There was just so much emotion in it.

When I saw that video I cried. Cause here was an old man at the end of his life reflecting on all the mistakes he felt he had made and how much pain sorrow he felt. That time is so fleeting and nothing lasts forever. Wishing perhaps to have told his wife and children that he loved them more often, or perhaps talking to his Dad before he was gone.....