Lets get the ball rolling Moses

[tabs]

OHHH Well Livi..***** happens...Its not like U were running up and down the hospital corridors with your Thang hanging out saying, "look at me look at me I got a big Thang."

[tabs]

Originally posted by tabs
Well now U know why you were one of the 3 that I picked.

The pain you feel is the expression of the love that you feel. If you didn't care (didn't love) , you wouldn't have any feelings about what U do. OK.

I beg to differ with Nostatic...you would make a good canidate for Thearpy. U tend to avoid the pain by slipping into the roll of scientist. Cold hard unfeeling facts. Thats how U push the pain away. Sometimes when U go on overload, you need to put the load down. But be aware that when U do so your not quiet on center with yourself. Make sense?

Now whats your response to this Moses?

[livi]

I am contemplating that as my next move, tabs.

According to the old advice: a bit too much is bad, WAY too much is perfect..

[tabs]

The shock value of that move is allready over they have allready seen everything U have to offer.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by livi
Adequate question, indeed!

And thanks! Silly me got all warm hearted from some of your responses.

As I hoped it would, I only pose the question to promote thought in relation to to the idea that humans are nothing more than a walking bag of water and chemicals.
On one hand I can understand the pragmatic secular humanist view that we are nothing more than highly evolved animals. However f you look at human society and all the altruistic behavior you see I have to wonder if there isn't more to life.

As someone else has said let's take a look at love... we took a brief look at parental love now how about love between a man and a woman, is it really just about procreation? Why have we draped it in so much ceremony and ritual? When a relationship fails why does it bother us so? Why do we loose sleep and become physically ill?

Or why do people become firemen and make a living of risking their lives to save complet strangers?

Why do we join the armed forces and march off to war?

Why do we build art musiums and fill them with paintings?

Why do some of write and play music... and still others worship those people who make that music?

I'm not sure... I'm just asking questions...

Fool On The Hill

(The Beatles)

Day after day, alone on the hill,
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still.
But nobody wants to know him,
They can see that he's just a fool.
And he never gives an answer .....

But the fool on the hill,
Sees the sun going down.
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning around.

Well on his way, his head in a cloud,
The man of a thousand voices, talking perfectly loud.
But nobody ever hears him,
Or the sound he appears to make.
And he never seems to notice .....

But the fool on the hill,
Sees the sun going down.
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning around.

And nobody seems to like him,
They can tell what he wants to do.
And he never shows his feelings,

But the fool on the hill,
Sees the sun going down.
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning around.

[livi]

On the surface such questions seem to put a Darwinist in a tight spot - a dilemma. However, with a few pages to spare, most behavior / acts / feelings can be put in a perspective of genetic survival - albeit seemingly far fetched at first glance. And it will make sense, logically.

However, I am equally intrigued by the notion that there in fact is another, higher, plane or structure lurking in the complex cerebral functions of the brain. In my opinion, it would still be a function based on basically simple chemical and electrical substances. But maybe in the fashion of 1 + 1 = 3.

It would not stand up to logic, but it would be kind of...wonderful.

[IROC]

Originally posted by scottmandue
As I hoped it would, I only pose the question to promote thought in relation to to the idea that humans are nothing more than a walking bag of water and chemicals.
On one hand I can understand the pragmatic secular humanist view that we are nothing more than highly evolved animals. However f you look at human society and all the altruistic behavior you see I have to wonder if there isn't more to life.

I think that on a technical level, the "operation" of our bodies and minds is a big, giant, complex naturalistic process (we're a walking bag of chemical reactions). But...and it a huge *but*...we - as a species - have evolved to a point where we have the intelligence and a consciousness about us to contemplate things. We have the ability to enjoy music and art. We have the ability to perform altruistic acts. We have the ability to stare at the night sky and wonder at the awesome size of the Universe.

Does this mean we have a "soul" and there is an afterlife and all that? No, I don't think so. Other animal species demonstrate emotions and altruistic behaviors that we commonly attribute only to humans, but I haven't seen anyone argue that they have souls and enjoy the benefits of an afterlife.

We are simply highly evolved animals, but that shouldn't fact shouldn't diminish the fact that we are able (as a result of evolution) to wonder at the world around us.

Not a very well thought-out response, but it's the gist of what I think.

Mike

[nostatic]

Originally posted by IROC


Does this mean we have a "soul" and there is an afterlife and all that? No, I don't think so. Other animal species demonstrate emotions and altruistic behaviors that we commonly attribute only to humans, but I haven't seen anyone argue that they have souls and enjoy the benefits of an afterlife.

Really? You aren't reading the right stuff

Buddhist teachings indicate that sentient beings are subject to karma and reincarnation. A typical definition for sentient is whether or not they can suffer pain. Animals qualify.

[Dottore]

Originally posted by hatpix
Buddism is about enlightenment. The life cycle is about suffering, desire leads to more suffering and thus reincarnation (truer meaning of Karma than what most think). The way to get off the wheel, is cessation of desire, which will lead to enlightenment.

Ergo, hanging on to your Porsche (and other worldly goods) will preclude you from reaching enlightenment, which is what the religion is basically about.

Christianity is about buying your way into heaven (IMO), which does not preclude owning a Porsche, as long as you still have enough money to donate to charities, help the needy, etc.

This is of course a very simplistic way of looking at complex thological systems, it is however, fairly sound.

Holy crap! That is the silliest thing I have read in ages.

[tabs]

Geezus I'm allready begining to smell the incense burning...

Anyway I see enough cognition in my dog...She is standing at the pantry door where I keep her food..obviously letting me know she is hungry. I tell her that her dinner is allready out, she turns around and walks over to her dish and begins to eat her dinner. Thats a little thing, but she understood what I was talking about.

[IROC]

Originally posted by nostatic
Buddhist teachings indicate that sentient beings are subject to karma and reincarnation. A typical definition for sentient is whether or not they can suffer pain. Animals qualify.

I'm sorry, but just because it's written in Buddhist teachings doesn't mean it's true. Show me some evidence for reincarnation and I'm with ya... :>)

Mike

[Dottore]

Originally posted by tabs
Come to think of it..I am the least delusional person on this Board. I live a totally meaningless life. I do nothing, accomplish nothing, all I do is while away my hours.

I don't strive for status, I don't strive for position, I don't strive for money..all are meaningless. U boyz are rtight , U have opened my eyes.

I am free of delusion, I AM A TRANSCENDENT BEING

This reminds me (I'm not sure why) of the old toilet stall graffiti:

"To be is to do. - Aristotle
"To do is to be. - Sartre
"Do be do be do. - Sinatra"

[svandamme]

Originally posted by IROC
I'm sorry, but just because it's written in Buddhist teachings doesn't mean it's true. Show me some evidence for reincarnation and I'm with ya... :>)

Mike

reincarnation is not a thing you have to believe in as a Budhist...
it's not like in Hinduisme or Jainisme.. it's more like that when one thing perishes, another thing can rise... it's not the ego that get's recycled over and over again...
even tibetan Buddhists don't really see it that abstract as one person dies, and shows up in some baby...

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by nostatic


Buddhist teachings indicate that sentient beings are subject to karma and reincarnation. A typical definition for sentient is whether or not they can suffer pain. Animals qualify.

Could you point me in the direction on some books that connect Buddhism and reincarnation? A friend of mine some times attends Buddhist temple services (his wifes parents are Japanese) and he doesn't think they teach reinc.

Correct me if I am wrong:
A. I think the Dali Lama is Buddhist
B I think it is taught that he is a reincarnated being
Therefor I presumed Buddhism = reinc.

These are the two books I have read on Buddhism and although it has been a while a quick review of them doesn't show anything pointing to reinc. (may be in there, I just skimmed throught the books recently and as I said it has been a long time since I sat down and read them)

What the Buddha Taught by Walpola Rahula
The Life Of Buddha As Legend And History by Edward J. Thomas

Also have :read
The Beginner's Guide to Insight Meditation by Arinna Weisman and Jean Smith
Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda

[svandamme]

the way i understood it , is that they do use the term reincarnation , but it's not a definitive term , it's just a name because of lack of a better word, the reincarnation in Buddhism is more a recycling of "stuff" , i die, and the life force that was once me , moves over and becomes something else but 'me' does not become that something else....

something like that... not " you die and if you were bad you return as a dog in Korea"

[Dottore]

Originally posted by scottmandue
Could you point me in the direction on some books that connect Buddhism and reincarnation?

My father, a lifelong Baptist, recently expressed an interest in Buddhism.

I bought him a book called "Buddhism Plain and Simple" by Steve Hagan - that was recommended to me.

This was a great success and my father has since sent this book to all his friends and quotes from it constantly. It's a slim volume that you can find at Amazon and it lives up to its title. I can also recommend "Buddhism - its not what you think" by the same author.

As to reincarnation - Buddha did not teach anything like this. Reincarnation is a Hindu concept.

Buddha did teach about the notion of "rebirth" which essentially involves the concept that everything continually changes and is renewed or "reborn".

The notion that you might die and disappear only to emerge as something else again begs the question: What is it that remains? What is it that provides the continuity between the two beings?

Buddha took the view that once we understand that everything is in constant flux, and once we understand this clearly, we could no longer take the idea of such continuity and persistence seriously - nor would we need to. The idea is to live increasingly in the moment

In fact a key to understanding Buddha's notion of enlightenment and emptiness is understanding that nothing is permanent from moment to moment - much less from "life" to "life" - as in the concept of reincarnation.

Sorry for rambling.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by svandamme

something like that... not " you die and if you were bad you return as a dog in Korea"

As a pet or the main dish?

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by Dottore

In fact a key to understanding Buddha's notion of enlightenment and emptiness is understanding that nothing is permanent from moment to moment - much less from "life" to "life" - as in the concept of reincarnation.

Sorry for rambling.

Actually your post falls pretty much into line with my understanding of the Buddhist philosophy.
Thanks!

[tabs]

no wonder I have chills running up and down my spine every time Korea is mientioned. Woof Woof

[munro86]

Its a fine sentiment to live in the moment, but the big chill is always in the back somewhere...