What would you do? Screwed by the screw company

WolfeMacleod · 10:46 PM

Well...
I use screws in my job. Lots, and lots, and lots of screws.

Several weeks ago, I contacted my supplier because I was running low, and needed to restock.
Now, I'm very particular about my screws...and so are my customers, so I requested samples which I could approve or refuse, because I had gotten funky screws from people before.
I have leanred that a screw is NOT just a screw like any other screw. Screws have signatures.

After refusing a few samples, they sent a sample of the screw I was already using, and that I had previously bought from them.
YES! I said. I'll take 25,000.

Delivery was supposed to take two weeks.
It took more than a month.

I ran out of my supply yesterday.
I got them today.
I opened the box today.

Crisis mode set in.

They were not the screws I approved, but were exactly a screw that I had earnestly refused. Among the worst of the samples.
They don't want to take them back, because "They meet the ANSI specs" for a 5-40 thread Fillister head screw.

Escuse me? Don't want to fix your error?

Regardless, they're not the screws I approved.

I CANNOT use these screws because of the way they affect my product adversly, and because of appearance issues. I need a good looking, handsome screw with a well formed head. Not a vaguely Coneheaded shape.

Coneheads. Heh.

Approved screw on the RIGHT, Received/refused screw on the LEFT. Notice the taper of the head of the received screw, and the rather "vague" slot for the screwdriver? It's more like..a DITCH dug out of the head.

These screws are 3/4 inch long threads, by the way.

Reversed...different angle. This shows the lack of well-formed, clearly defined top of the head.

Approved screw on the right. How nicely it fills the hole it gets countersunk into. Not so, on the left..

Hugh R · 01-09-2007, 11:00 PM

Email these pics to their head of marketing and ask him why you should continue doing business with them. A similar thing happened to me recently. I got some new main bearings for an engine I'm rebuilding and the inside diameter of the bearings varied by 1-1.25 thou clearance. I was told they were within spec. Yeah right, the CLEARANCE is supposed to be 1-1.75 thou! You'd think that with modern machinery/computers, etc. that tolerances and specs. would get better not worse.

911pcars · 01-09-2007, 11:29 PM

Looks like they sourced the fillister heads from a low-end vendor. I agree. Those screws are lacking. I hope you get satisfaction from your supplier. Care to tell us who to avoid?

This could be customer satisfaction karma oft-repeated.

Sherwood

mikester · 01-09-2007, 11:55 PM

yikes you're in a bind but those screws won't do. I'm wondering if the material is even sub par and if you tried to use them the heads might easily damage.

Milu · 01-10-2007, 12:12 AM

The first part is easy. Return don't pay. Try and stick them with a penalty for production downtime. (they won't pay up unless your a regular client and it's in your contract, but it may focus their mind a little)

The second part is harder, you need to find a reliable supplier you can work with. This one has failed.
Late delivery.
Rejected product supplied and
BS that it's to spec. The spec is what you agreed with the sample you accepted.

ZOO · 01-10-2007, 02:30 AM

And here I was thinking I was particular about my screws

on2wheels52 · on2wheels52's Garage

BTW, nice camera work Wolfe. Stevie Wonder could see the difference.
Jim

IROC · IROC's Garage

I'm not an expert on fillister head screws, but it appears to me that the screws above do not meet the ANSI spec for fillister screws. The applicable ANSI spec is B18.6.3. According to the spec, no taper in the head diameter is shown (or implied). The only concession made is the following:

"A slight rounding of the edges at the periphery of the head shall be permissible provided the diameter of the bearing circle is equal to no less than 90 percent of the specified minimum head diameter."

The permissible diameter of a #5-40 head is .205/.187, so if the diameter of the head is less than .168 inches at the top, then these do not meet the spec.

Mike

m21sniper · 01-10-2007, 04:09 AM

Threaten to send Fast Pat to their websites message boards if they don't satisfy your demands.

stomachmonkey · 01-10-2007, 04:28 AM

You're right. Supplier 100% wrong. You need to escalate. Sounds like someone dropped the ball on your order, realized it to late and tried to fill it with whatever they could get as fast as they could get it.

May not be the company as much as one individual trying to cover his/her ass.

I'd raise a huge stink.

Joeaksa · 01-10-2007, 06:32 AM

Agreed and their is no way that the two screws are even close.

Hope you have other suppliers as I would look around if the current supplier is playing these games with you.

mschuep · 01-10-2007, 06:56 AM

That sucks. I hope you can find yourself a temporary solution so your business does not suffer.

I would call the company and try to get as high up the ladder as you can, could be someone trying to cover their own a$$ as stated previously. 25,000 screws is no small order. Eventually, I would hope you can get ahold of someone with the brainpower and authority to admit that the company made a mistake.

IROC · IROC's Garage

These look like screws in pickups? At 6 screws per pickup (or 12 in the case of a humbucker), 25,000 screws would last you awhile, right? :>)

Mike

john70t · 01-10-2007, 07:21 AM

Hardball time.
You should call them back, but this time tape record(legally-notify and/or beeps) them and let them know the call is also being witnessed.

Restate their mistakes in situation,
and how many estimated man hours it will take to source same-spec screws,
and the extra cost of emergency shipping,
and how the delay to finish current contracts/projects has led to loss of extra contracts,
and more importantly the permanent damage to your proffesional business reputation.

So.....how soon could they get the correct replacements sent?

stomachmonkey · 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IROC
These look like screws in pickups? At 6 screws per pickup (or 12 in the case of a humbucker), 25,000 screws would last you awhile, right? :>)

Mike

It does look like pickups. Definately they require the proper aesthetics. Who wants to buy a pick up with those crappy looking pieces of ***** in them. Sometimes form is just as important as function.

You may want to see if someone up the ladder plays. They'll get it when you show them those pics and tell them what the product is.

WolfeMacleod · 01-10-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IROC
These look like screws in pickups? At 6 screws per pickup (or 12 in the case of a humbucker), 25,000 screws would last you awhile, right? :>)

Mike

Mike and Stomachmonkey, you are exactly right. I'm one of the "boutique" pickup builders. I deal with very high end guitar builders, am I'm very anal about every aspect of my product.

This has already hurt me in a major way. I have several thousand dollars worth of product that's due to be completed and shipped out before this weekend, so several builders can have them in time to put in guitars that will be in the NAMM show the weekend after this coming. No pickups, no guitars for the show.

They will not be able to rectify this in time.