No, I am not sidetracked. You mistake my viewpoint. My position is that the act of men going to war...despite the suffering, hardship, and danger involved is itself noble if the cause is righteous. It does not require specific action, nor is it only "noble at times" IMHO.

that was not what we said, and not what you said, you said "WAR can be noble"

you're getting confused again.

No, I said: "War is quite noble when it is the last alternative to something much worse." That does not in any way exclude that
"the act of men going to war...despite the suffering, hardship, and danger involved is itself noble if the cause is righteous." In fact, it is the very same thing.
"It does not require specific action, nor is it only "noble at times" IMHO." In other words, a specific bit of heroism on a specific battlefield would not be required to make going into a righteous war noble. Going to war to fight evil/wrongdoing is noble in of itself.

the rub is who's definition of evil/wrongdoing...

Yes it is.

Flint,

Like I said, it does not matter what you say with our member from Belgium. Reality and him do not work together much of the time.

Next time Hitler or another dictator like him comes to Europe we should just leave the entire area alone if people living there feel this way. Funny thing is that I bet that if we asked Stijn's Mother and Father some of the the same questions that they possibly having been alive when Europe was occupied, that their answers might be a bit different.

Joe A

PS Stijn, My answer to you about war is about the same as Fint's. Its none of your business exactly which war or conflict I was in (more than one BTW), nor what I did there, but I was trained as a sniper before flying airplanes. Until you have been there and experienced it, there is simply no way to really describe it to another person, especially one like you who does not give a damm what anyone says and does everything to discredit anything you say. Its a waste of time and not worth my time to rebutt your drivel.

Joe your rethoric is pointless , the typical "screw you bunch of european ingrates" is easy to spew, but serves no purpose in this discussion

you being trained as a sniper, or as a pilot has nothing to do with the basic notion that war is a rotten business, and as a concept , it is not noble at all..

it is perfectly possible to say that, and still have respect for those troops in whatever country , fighting for a cause, but mostly to protect their comerades in arms...

this "it's either noble , or you diss the troops and your an ingrate", just means you are good at propaganda and rhetoric... the same stuff that that was used in every war , to lure young folks and make em sacrifice their lives under the command of big men in comfy chairs...if said loud enough, and often enough , it always works doesn't it?



this "i've been to wars, but i can't talk about it" to me comes over as
posing... i haven't been to war, but at least i'm clear about it...
either you have, or you haven't been to one, it's not top secret to say what conflict , i'm not asking what you did there, so your secretive denial to say where just makes your claim meaningless.


I do give a damn what anyone says , but i refuse to accept the notion that war is noble, it simply is not i've seen plenty of proof to the contrary

War is much more than a "rotten business," its hell but there are times that there is no other choice. Unfortunately you have not realized this just yet. Suppose you would argue that WW2 was not needed? Korea? Gulf War 1?

How many of these wars was Belgium an active participant in? How many soldiers did they provide to help the world fight agression? Ask the South Koreans how they felt when North Korea over-ran their country with no notice in 1950. Ask the Kuwaiti's how they felt when the same thing happened as Iraq rolled over their land, killing, raping and stealing everything in sight in 1990. Will not ask about WW2 as we all know how fast Belgium surrendered instead of fighting. Poland stood their ground, fought and slowed down the Nazi's more than Belgium did.

You were the one who commented on my being a pilot and insulated from things at 30,000 feet, so now when I show that I was not always sitting in a cockpit you refuse to comment on it?

You will continue to "not give a damm about it" as long as you and yours continue to waive the white flag of surrender to anyone to approaches your country and society. You have done it for century's and will probably continue. Its hard to grow a backbone in a spineless creature. Enjoy your snails for lunch bucko...

where idd i say that there is always another choice to war?
i never said it, this has no relevance to what i was saying.

Belgium did fight in Korea, Belgium was in the Gulf 1 coalition, it was also in Youguslavia for that matter

but it still has no relevance to the discussion we had earlier
0% relevant, you're sidetracking things so you can make me out to be a liberal hippy ingrate...



zero relevance to this discussion, Belgium was indeed run over ... that's the concept of Blitzkrieg for ya...
besides, the Belgians DID hold the Germans at bay so the Brittish could save lives and evacuate at Dunquerque

but again , ZERO relevance to the discussion here...

i did comment on it , but you keep dodging the question where you saw war, and how close you saw it , all hush hush apparantly

i don't eat snails, and your little snips about surrendering and what not have no relevance.. your just ranting away , without having any points to make about the discussion

i'll remind you : War as a concept is not noble

you have not been able to provide 1 single shred of evidence of the contrary , you've only prooven to be good at dodging the core of a discussion...

Yea, I remember the Belgium contigent in those wars, all three soldiers who were cooking at the rear of the front.

Hippy ingrate? You are learning new words! Well, if the shoe fits, then guess you can wear it!

My past history and when and where I did anything is simply NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. I do not need to tell nor prove anything to you, so get off of it. You can try to direct the discussion anyway you wish, but you are the one who just does not realize what he is talking about.

Let me remind you that war as a concept is needed at times to save people like you who cannot fight to save your country and simply surrender. Guess in the future we should just let the other side kill all of you guys and then it would be over!!??

This is a total waste of time trying to discuss anything with a wanker. Goodby...

either post your experience in the military or be considered more of a liar than you already are. You wanna play the military card big boy? you gotta man up and tell us all about it. Otherwise you are just another keyboard jockey poser ******* and everyone here knows it.

Oh, you too Finty.

TIA.

another thread...killed...

chill hunter.