Rugs, rugs, rugs -Help

jyl · jyl's Garage

We want some nice rugs for the house. All floors are hardwood. 9' x 12' for living room, 10' x 14' for dining room, 7' x 7' for entry, etc.

Tastes run from Art Nouveau and Arts/Crafts motifs to Oriental patterns.

Have visited some oriental rug stores, taken several rugs home as loaners, hunted through various online stores and 50 of the 150+ eBay pages of rugs.

What do we want out of this? I'm not interested in "collecting" rugs. I assume my kids will have no interest in my stuff when they ship me off to the nursing home. I basically want to cover the floor, with an attractive, deep, and dense pile, that with reasonable care will look good for the rest of my life. I do have a weakness for hand-done things, but am not a nut about it. I don't mind used things.

Am trying to figure out what to do. Insist on Iranian hand-knotted silk/wool with 300 knots/sq in? Okay with Indian hand-knotted wool at 100 kpsi? How about Chinese? Or we could go machine-woven in Bulgaria. Even synthetic. And we could buy at a local rug store, or go the other extreme and snipe on eBay.

The price range encompassed by the various approaches mentioned, for a 9' x 12', seems to be about a >300-to-1 ratio. Yikes.

Any suggestions? I suspect tabs knows a thing or two about rugs, and so do others.

(So, right now, I am leaning toward trying out eBay where ostensibly hand-knotted wool rugs from India seem quite reasonably priced. Maybe I'm just throwing money away?)

HardDrive · 01-13-2007, 11:38 PM

My wife and I have a mix of fakes and real. Our dinning room, and rec room rugs are fake, and for good reason. We have a 3 year old, and stuff gets spilled on them. That being said, they are good looking fakes.

Our other rugs are real (bedrooms, hallways, runners, etc....).

Its pretty easy to find nice real rugs, it finding decent looking sythetics that is more problematic. Don't count out places like Lowes and Home Depot. Some times the big furniture stores with have outlets where they sell their scratched and dented stuff, and you can find good rugs on the cheap.

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

We went with Karastan all-New Zealand wool rugs a year and a half ago and are very pleased with them. We also got the Karastan pads and the rugs feel soft, comfortable and luxurious and are easy to clean. Someone got black shoe polish on one of the rugs after my grandfather's funeral last year and I used a "spray, rub and vacuum" cleaner on it and got every trace of shoe polish off. The wool's natural lanolin helps keep stains off. Herati patterns looks nice...

Dottore · 01-14-2007, 07:30 AM

Buy what you like. Forget about buying for collectibility.

The really, truly collectible pieces that will increase in value are seriously expensive and are in any case almost impossible to resell for their collectors value. (Rugs almost always trade at a discount.) Don't even think about this unless your name is The Aga Khan.

tabs · 01-14-2007, 08:03 AM

Check out local Estate Auctions...in SF Harvey Clars and Auctions by the Bay. You will soon see the Persian Mafia.

Costco has a Road Show in which U can get some decent looking Handmade Rugs from India and China for very reasonable money.

When U buy retail there is a HUGH markup. Best place to buy Good rugs is at Auction, just watch the Persians and when they stop bidding you stop. If U want a rug U can outbid them by a bid or two since they are dealers and are buying wholesale. However I have seen them take people out to the deep end on rugs. Its worthwhile just watching the Persians for entertainement value.

I personally get confused about rugs, there is SO MUCH TO KNOW. I have several books on the subject and still don't know squat. I know that rugs made in the 19th century with Organic dyes is where the real money is at. More knots per sq inch the better. Silk doesn't last as long.

In So CAl there is a group of about a dozen Persian Rug Dealers I call the Mafia, they have one guy do all the biding so that they don't compete among themselves. I call him the Prince since he acts like royalty and is quiet a character. He will bid stuff up just for spite.

Dottore · 01-14-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs

In So CAl there is a group of about a dozen Persian Rug Dealers I call the Mafia, they have one guy do all the biding so that they don't compete among themselves. I call him the Prince since he acts like royalty and is quiet a character. He will bid stuff up just for spite.

Agreed. And most of the auctions are rigged. Don't believe for a second that this is really a "customs liquidation" or some such thing. That's all BS.

There are so many scams associated with the sale of Persian carpets - that all I can say is stay away from this if you don't know what you are doing.

The very best place to buy Persian carpets is the gulf - Dubai etc. For many Iranian emigres carpets are used like cash - they purchase them in-country and then sell them in the gulf for foreign currency. If you are buying high-end pieces this is really the best place.

As tabs points, antique carpets (organic dyes that have faded nicely) command a serious premium - but even that "faded organic dye look" is now being faked so you better know what you are doung when you're paying big money for one of these things.

tabs · 01-14-2007, 10:09 AM

I'm not talking about Customs Auctions...I'm talking Abells, John Moran, Butterfields and Sotherbys...

tabs · 01-14-2007, 10:12 AM

Another avenue maybe High End Consignment Shops.

tabs · 01-14-2007, 10:13 AM

About the faking of rugs, just watch the Persians, if they bid beyond a give away price U know its worthwhile.

RickM · RickM's Garage

A former neighbor revived his uncles rug restoration/cleaning business in NY. I choked when he showed me a pile of rugs where each would fetch as much as a CGT. His customer rolodex read like the who's who of the rich and famous. For example he became good friends with the late Doris Duke. It's quite an intimidating, expensive and competitive business to be part of. Like anything else the more you know the better off you are when it comes to investing.

I don't have the interest to get into rugs but when looking I wanted a piece that was well made and a good value. Rewind 2 years, I was searching for an 18-20 foot hallway runner for many months. I visited many shops and prices ranged from $2k to $5k. I really didn't care for anything I saw.

I had been scanning Ebay regularly and found an importer/retailer in NYC that had what appeared to be very nice looking, quality pieces for very little $$. I decided to take a chance and I went for an 18' wool runner @ $399. Yep, $399. If I didn't like I'd find somewhere else in the house to use.

All I can say is that we recieve more compliments on this rug and it is very well made. Investment material? No, but a beautiful piece that I'll likely have for many years to come.

Here's their site www.rug5.com Email: BestofEbay@aol.com
Ebay Store:

http://stores.ebay.com/BestRugPlace_W0QQssPageNameZVIStoreHeaderLinksQQtZ km?

Good Luck!

tabs · 01-14-2007, 11:16 AM

Do U really want to walk on an investment rug????

RickM · RickM's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
Do U really want to walk on an investment rug????

Excellent point.

tabs · 01-14-2007, 11:20 AM

I think your search is over...

Eric Coffey · 01-14-2007, 11:22 AM

More info in this thread from last year.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

i thought this thread was going to be about hair replacement...

Moses · 01-14-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RickM
I had been scanning Ebay regularly and found an importer/retailer in NYC that had what appeared to be very nice looking, quality pieces for very little $$. I decided to take a chance and I went for an 18' wool runner @ $399. Yep, $399. If I didn't like I'd find somewhere else in the house to use.

Here's their site www.rug5.com Email: BestofEbay@aol.com
Ebay Store: http://stores.ebay.com/BestRugPlace_W0QQssPageNameZVIStoreHeaderLinksQQtZ km?

Good Luck!

Absolutely! When I added a dining room to my house, I wanted a Persian rug under the table to soften the look of the limestone floors. I bought a 12" X 8" Iranian Nain rug (silk/wool/cotton) for $600! I love it. It got mine from the same importer on EBay. I HIGHLY recommend it. A rug collector would likely thumb his nose at my $600 persian, but it works for me.

The oil paintings on the wall are also from EBay. Beautiful original oils. $65/each.

Eric Coffey · 01-14-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nostatic
i thought this thread was going to be about hair replacement...

I'm sure this guy knows a thing or two about good rugs:

Dottore · 01-14-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
Do U really want to walk on an investment rug????

Not a problem. But you don't want to put furniture on it, have kids spill things on it etc.

RickM · RickM's Garage

Dottore · 01-14-2007, 12:32 PM

Here are the only two rugs I own that could be considered investment grade. Both are from Tabriz in Iran.

Both are extremely fine, have high knot-counts etc. The red one is about 150 years old - and it's this natural fading of the natural dyes that collectors like.

The black and gold one is the nicest rug I have ever seen that I could afford. I bought it in Dubai about 20 years ago. It's gold and blue silk on black wool and has a ridiculously high knot-count. It's a rug that is alive ie. when you walk around it in sunlight the colours constantly change. Absolutely magic. A magic carpet!