No fly watch list

[holtjv]

Does anyone have any real experience with how this list is compiled and matched by the NSA?

Here's the context: my company develops very sophisticated matching software which matches on several different fields within the data record. This is nothing new as there are several companies doing this, albeit each in slightly different ways. But it is sort of new (last 4 years).

I've read, but don't know for sure, that the TSA/NSA/airlines matching system relies purely on Soundex software, which matches only on name. Soundex is a phonetic-type algorithm which applies a value to a letter, which can then be compared to the same value of another letter, or combination thereof.

For example, "Hakim" can sound like, "Gene"; and theoretically generate a false positive match. My selfish concern is that the TSA software is matching so many false positives (which isn't really a huge problem unless you keep getting nailed) that they're missing the legitimate matches.

We've done some testing on name data with Soundex and our software--multi-field teramatching produces about 40-50% more matches while lowering the false positives by 20-30%.

Obviously this is all about getting business for my company by getting attention in the media with these numbers--no obfuscation there--but nonetheless, it's just a bit frightening that the govt is using such poor software to ensure our national security. Not surprising though.

My suspicion is that, even if someone really knows how the matches are happening, they would be violating national security laws by talking about it. But there must be a bit more information available out there somewhere.

Anyone on the no fly watch list and have tried to get off of it? Any success?

Thanks for helping me support our host by increasing my income.

Jack

[wludavid]

I'm on a watch list but haven't tried to get off it. I know why, and it's a real but stupid reason. Usually I just have to wait at the check-in counter for the agent to call in my info.

As for your software, do you have curves of percent-detected vs rate of false positives? In my line of work (minefield detection) I play with this stuff all day.

[Seahawk]

All I know is that I am on it, can't seem to get off it, and I cannot use the kiosks.

[Joeaksa]

All I know is that Teddy Kennedy is on it and there are a lot of us who could not be happier.

I work in the industry and have not the slightest idea of how its compiled nor worked with. They just look at my passport and see countries like Libya, Algeria, Syria, Iran, Saudi, Iraq, Bahrain and so on stamped there and for some silly reason I my bags get searched a lot...

[holtjv]

Originally posted by wludavid
I'm on a watch list but haven't tried to get off it. I know why, and it's a real but stupid reason. Usually I just have to wait at the check-in counter for the agent to call in my info.

As for your software, do you have curves of percent-detected vs rate of false positives? In my line of work (minefield detection) I play with this stuff all day.

Yes we have all the comparative data but I think the record set needs to be expanded, which is what we're working on now. I think we're hitting a 5,000 patient record set (fabricated; not real name data) and I'd like to expand it to 500k.

Today an analyst ran some soundex on "Barack Obama" and one of the results was, "Bruce Owen"; among others. Importantly, Soundex doesn't rank the results--Bruce Owen is given as much weight as Barack Osama.

Jack

[holtjv]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
All I know is that Teddy Kennedy is on it and there are a lot of us who could not be happier.

I work in the industry and have not the slightest idea of how its compiled nor worked with. They just look at my passport and see countries like Libya, Algeria, Syria, Iran, Saudi, Iraq, Bahrain and so on stamped there and for some silly reason I my bags get searched a lot...

Teddy got off the list. But he is on the "do not serve hard liquor" and "don't back your behind up to him if you're a female flight attendant" lists.

[Joeaksa]

As well as a "do not drive across any bridge with him" list I suppose?

[holtjv]

and the "danger of spontaneous combustion if overfed list"... I guess there could be hundreds of them.

[wludavid]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
As well as a "do not drive across any bridge with him" list I suppose?

I actually just typed out, "do not get ride home from" list, but deleted. I guess it's an obvious joke.

[holtjv]

dammit I hijacked my own thread. but it's a helluva lot more entertaining than the original topic.

[cashflyer]

Vegas casinos use very sophisticated facial recognition systems to spot known "cheaters". Are any airports doing this? (Probably not, because TSA and airport security is just a bad joke.)

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by cashflyer
Vegas casinos use very sophisticated facial recognition systems to spot known "cheaters". Are any airports doing this? (Probably not, because TSA and airport security is just a bad joke.)

Its used in the UK. When the football (soccer) season is at its peak and they are playing the championships over in Holland and other parts of Europe, the Brit authorities on a regular basis stop people from bording ferries heading to matches. Some of its done on passport but others on face recognition.

Not sure how many know this but its not really secret so will post it. If anyone ever flies into Las Vegas, they have been picked up on a video recognition software system. They video almost all if not every airline passenger coming into the city and its run through the computers trying to find people who have been blackballed in the casino's. Its very good and very accurate from what I have heard.

[David]

I guess I'm on the list and my level of pissed-off-ness is growing.

I'm a white, almost middle aged, somewhat professional, with a very American name. So what gives?

I can't check in online and I can't use the kiosks. I have to actually talk to a person. I don't fly a lot, but I fly more than most.

I looked at the ACLU site and they can't seem to figure it out either even with the FOIA and a couple of lawsuits!

[widgeon13]

OK, stupid question. How does one know if they are on the list?

I used to get singled out for extra security scrutiny but no longer since I stopped working. I worked for a Canadian company (living in US) and made numerous trips between Canada and US, at least 50 - 60 a year. Some trips to Toronto and other trips crossing in northern Maine. Probably 50% 0f the trips were on our corporate aircraft.

Since I retired, I no longer get any attention, should I be jealous?

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

All I know is that I am on it, can't seem to get off it, and I cannot use the kiosks.

Your on it because they want you to take a boat!

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by targa911S

Your on it because they want you to take a boat!

Not anymore

I have a friend who works for DHLS...it seems there was someone of hostile intent who matched my profile in several important ways. I requested a review.

I simply had them inset "targa911s" for "seahawk" in my profile and I was good to go.

All the best on your next trip, Dave

btw, when is the best time for me to come get the Bobwhite? This weekend, say Saturday look good?

[David]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

OK, stupid question. How does one know if they are on the list?

I think that's part of why this is a big deal. You don't know and you can't find out.

I don't know for sure that I'm on it. I do know that I can't check in online and I can't check in at a kiosk. I fly enough that I'm usually upgraded to first class so it's not like I'm just having bad luck.

A few years ago I thought I'd try taking a commuter jet from the air national guard base a few minutes from my house up to the big airport north of Houston. You'd have thought I was Osama himself. At first they acted like I couldn't get on the plane. And I'm at least a 10th generation American (from Western Europe), very white and very American looking! Finally a security guy pulled me aside, patted me down and then some and let me on the plane.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by 125shifter

I think that's part of why this is a big deal. You don't know and you can't find out.

I don't know for sure that I'm on it. I do know that I can't check in online and I can't check in at a kiosk. I fly enough that I'm usually upgraded to first class so it's not like I'm just having bad luck.

A few years ago I thought I'd try taking a commuter jet from the air national guard base a few minutes from my house up to the big airport north of Houston. You'd have thought I was Osama himself. At first they acted like I couldn't get on the plane. And I'm at least a 10th generation American (from Western Europe), very white and very American looking! Finally a security guy pulled me aside, patted me down and then some and let me on the plane.

Damn, I'm going to have to start visiting your place. I'd hate to be on a list for being social with a terrorist!

[David]

Steve, are you going to meet us at Chuy's on Friday? Or do you want a ride... muuhhaahhaahhaa!

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Not anymore

I have a friend who works for DHLS...it seems there was someone of hostile intent who matched my profile in several important ways. I requested a review.

I simply had them inset "targa911s" for "seahawk" in my profile and I was good to go.

All the best on your next trip, Dave

btw, when is the best time for me to come get the Bobwhite? This weekend, say Saturday look good?

Yeah Saturday works good. Gimme a call before you head out. That way I'll be dressed by the time you get here. :-)