Four beautiful words: "Bose noise-cancelling headset". Ahhh, bliss.

Thank you dd74.

I really, and honestly think (unfortunately) too many parents, whether younger or older, just aren't up to the job. They are TOO well meaning. Kids search for "the limits". They couldn't articulate that but they see what they can get by with. Why? They are smart as hell and learn EVERYTHING when they're little.

When you teach them no - sensibly and kindly - when they are really little they always know your no is NO, it doesn't mean, bug the crap outta me 30 more times until I give in. Anyway, not to rant but in my opinion, kids are easier when they are younger and harder when they get older. If you can't handle a toddler, you've got NO business having a teenager.

As an aside, I was out a few weeks ago and noticed a young mother - maybe 32 with two young kids. A son about 4 and a daugher a little older, maybe 6. It was a Boston Market restaurant so had to stand in line behind them and later sat fairly close. I was enthralled that the kids were neat and pretty polite. The mom was holding a conversation WITH them, not talking DOWN to them. She was not the typical, "let-my-appearence-go-to-hell-because-I-am-a-mother" either.

What is really notable about this? Its that I noticed. That this really seems to be a rare exception. That should NOT be. She wasn't raising her voice, the kids weren't little robots. They were enjoying being with their mother and giggling over their conversation. Cleaned up after themselves. In short, she expects a lot and gets it. Really nice to see for a middle aged guy that has already raised his kids.

Polite children always enthrall me. They shake hands, they look a person in the eye when they are addressed. They answer "yes" and "no," not "huh?" or nothing at all.

Meanwhile, I know of a mother of a third grader who during a "play date" (I hate that term), the third grader asked for a knife with which to go teach the other kids "a lesson." The mother of that third grader promptly put her son in therapy, then declared, "It's out of my hands."

Unbelievable.

What a bunch of child hating grumps. Really.

My son is 21 months old and goes a lot of places with me. Most of the time, I don't care what he doing as long as he's not physically bothering people or throwing things. All the enegy I put into life he has at 30 inches tall and no responsibilies.

In close quarters, I try to keep him as calm as I can. But a toddler knows two volumes..full blast and asleep and I'm well aware that not everyone wants to hear him - hell, I don't wanna hear him.

I took him on a flight BY MYSELF from DC to Orlando to meet up with Mom who was already there. It was a tiring, frustrating experience. The seats we so small (he rode my lap) and the plane sat for a long time and it was hot. I can't blame him for being cranky. I was cranky. At one point I was so frustrated trying to keep him calm, that an attendant helped take him up to the front to have a snack. On the ride back, we got the bigger seat and he sat on the tray table.

Next time you all are *****ing about your flight (or whereever) and a child, remember that most of the parents really are cognizant of what's going on. While I speak for myself only, I can't stand the nonsense. But we need to pick out battles. It's your couple hour flight, but we live with them all the time.

If you haven't been there, you have no idea how tiring it is for a couple of 30-something to keep up with a little one. Limitless energy.

I'm not angry with toddlers who fuss, I am angry at the parents who put them in that situation. If their kids can't handle the flight, nice restrauant, or whatever, it is incument on the parents to not bring them to those places.

You should be so lucky to sit near me on a plane. I have almost infinite patience for other peoples' kids, since I am only too happy that they are not mine making the fuss. I do not confront badly behaved children or their parents, but that doesn't mean that I am not annoyed by them.

I have two boys, now 10 and 12. They have flown cross country twice yearly since they were 1 and have gone to China and back. They do not intrude on the good will of other travelers. When they were younger people would sit near us and give us the leery "how are they going to behave" look before takeoff. Most of them would stop and comment that the boys behaved so well on the flight. If they were not good travelers I would not bring them on flights any more than I would have brought them as 2 and 4 year olds to a fancy place to eat.

It's only common sense. People need to tolerate regular kids stuff; kids need to respect and not take advantage of the rest of the people around them when they are in public. Parents who cannot or who are not willing to control their kids in public are to blame and should not be allowed to subject their children and the public to the fruits of their neglect.

Unruly child cure... make them play outside:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1169621490.jpg

my son is very well behaved when flying. Becuase i am on him like a cheap suit to make sure of that.

As for younger kids, benadryl is your friend.

And people wonder why I don't want to start a new family...

If your kids cannot travel by aircraft without disturbing other passengers...you need to leave them at home or find another means of travel. The same holds true for shopping or restraurants or any other public place other than a playgropund. If others wanted to put up with crap from badly behaving children...they would have some of their own. Clearly, even very young children can be taught to behave....look around closely...they are the ones that you do not ever notice. What i really hate are the butt-wipes who sit up in 1st class while leaving their badly behaving children in coach for the rest of us to suffer with/babysit.

Unfortunately not all airlines allow preboarding for those with small children. Southwest still does and sometimes American lets us board early but not always.

We have been traveling with our son since he was born pretty much. I think he was on his first flight to AZ at 3 months or so. Of course they don't start becoming a problem until they can move on their own and then they want too and don't understand why you won't let them. At about 2 or so they start becoming a little more "reasonable" (in the looooooosest sense of that word) and are at least able to be distracted by a DVD player or something. About the only time our son gets any significant amount of tube time is on a long flight. He's flown cross country at least 6 times round trip. He's well behaved and we have only really had one melt down but that was contained easily enough by stuffing a boob in his face. He's too old for that now though (I'm not though).

I do have sypathy for parents who are having trouble. We have a pretty close nit set of friends who have kids all about the same age and we discuss this all the time. It is damn near impossible to get a 2-3 year old to NOT kick the seat in front of them. When they are cranky; they will do it simply to spite you. We discipline our child within reason and try to impose upon him the understanding that he has a choice. He can do what ever it is we're asking or he can go in the corner until he is ready to do it (for example). This works well for ours, your mileage may vary. We haven't had to get to spanking yet but he's a bit young for that in my opinion. It hasn't been ruled out entirely though and I've started telling him that kicking the back of a chair is very dangerous (make the dangerous concerned face too) and that seems to be getting the point across better than getting angry about it.

I'm not model parent but having a cute kid sure helps.

As I said; I just don't feel bad for you folks who have no time for the likes of a cranky child. If you haven't got time for a cranky child who needs some help - what have you got time for. I mean besides yourself.

It takes a bit to get me going but this topic hit it hard for me, mainly because I am so f'ing pissed at my Dad because in 2 years since my son was born he hasn't lifted a finger to come see him. I've brought him out to him twice now to see my grandparents and in turn him but he won't get on a plane. Dunno what it is either, it isn't money - they just bought a cabin. I would be hard pressed to say it is fear as he's retired airforce flight crew and retired airline flight crew.

Mom on the other hand who is deathly afraid of flying has been out here 6 times.

It's nice when family comes to see you instead of expecting you to make all the trips with the kids in tow to see them.

+100.

Very well said. I can't believe some of the places I've seen unruly little ones -- the $100+ a person steakhouse, even the casino at 2AM. What are these parents thinking? Clearly, they are not.

I have a three year old and we fly often. First flight was at 6 m/o. I have another child due in May. I am 39 and my wife is 40. My daughter is a normal three year old with boundless energy..we are normal 40 year olds with endless fatigue. I believe in letting a child be a child when appropriate.
I run a resort in the Bahamas that is known for our formal, elegant dinners. White linen table cloths and well dressed patrons paying up to $50.00 per entree. No one expects to drop $150.00 on a meal and have anything other than an excellent experience. My daughter eats at our restaurant often in the evening. My wife and I began early teaching our daughter proper table manners and proper behavior for the environment. We use inside voices and other reminders of being considerate of others around you. She does great but it takes constant vigilance on our parts to ensure she remembers how to behave. We will quickly remove her from the environment if she is unable to pull it together…THAT IS OUR JOB AS PARENTS!!!
Letting a child run through a dining room, throw food on the floor, yell an scream, kick the back of an airline seat, cry endlessly, etc, is a sign of parents that simply don't get it. It is not my responsibility to put up with your brat because you don't care.
Keep the kid at home if they can't behave in public. Teach them proper manners if you take them into social environments!! Period!!
Don't worry, society will be glad to discipline them when they reach 18....our court systems and jails are full of "kids" whose parents didn't want to stifle their creativity and growth.

"Child Whisperer"....some parent's need training :)

Mike, I think your angry at your Dad, we all agree that kids can be tough,
but manners can be taught.
My Uncle could look at me, and I would so want a beating , rather than that look.
He was in line at the store,lady in front with a little one 4 or 5..he spits on my Uncle , several times / please stop young man /
Mom interjects..don't tell my kid to stop, we believe in his free spirit..
Uncle spits a goey on on her..So did my parents.
Rika

The answer (though tempting) isn't to say, "children will be children" or to travel my a different method. The ANSWER (and I believe every parent knows it inside) is to make your child behave appropriately.

I "get" why this is so difficult for parents to accomplish. It takes effort from the time they are babes in arms and lots of parents aren't up to it. It is exhausting. I know, I did it. There is such a thing as our "inside" voice and our "outside" voice and small children are plenty smart enough to understand that if you start the minute they start talking and stay with it. Many of them want to talk incessently and that takes nonstop effort to deal with too. But ALL of this can be done with kindness. They also have to know that you can get cross and its your way or...your way.

Sounds like Mikester is a part of the problem, and expects those around him to just suck it up. Sorry, too many well-behaved kids on airplanes, in returants, and elswhere to buy his whiney drivel. It most certainly IS possible to control your children in public. The fact that you don't know how should not make others' lives misserable. Too bad there seems to be a dearth of people that realize that very basic courtesey.

The hardest part about travelling with toddlers is dealing with flight delays. Stuff like that makes adults go nuts let alone kids. We fly with our kids and 95% of the time have success (no drama/meltdown). Worst trip was to MN to see a *soon to expire* great grandma when my son was 9mos old. Delta San Diego to St.Paul via Salt Lake. First leg was delayed 90 minutes and the SLC plane was delayed 2 hrs, pushed back from gate, and then sat in hold by runway for 1.5 hrs in very hot conditions. Misery for kid, passengers, and parents. I can't recall being that physically and emotionally wasted in a long time.

It's funny reading how some adults here say "I was never like that...", "I was a model in good behavior...". That may be true but every kid is different. I think of my wife and I as pretty good parents. We have a son and daughter who could not be more different though they were raised to the same standard.

Finally, I agree partly with almost everyone here. Sucks to fly with kids that are not being managed. Crying kids I can deal with. Actually I sympathize with the parents if they are doing what they can to limit the damage. BTDT so I totally understand the anguish from both sides.

I'm flying to Florida with my son on Friday. I'll report back on how he does. But, boy oh boy, he's told me that *he* doesn't like the following, I sure hope that there's none of these type people on the plane or the airport:

- the guy in the suit jacket that still doesn't understand (it's 2007 people!) to take off the freaking jacket and dump his stupid change and keyrings into his laptop bag (which he didn't remove :rolleyes:) before getting to the x ray machine.
- the fat person who can't keep their bulk in their seat
- the window seat guy that can't hold it for 2 hours and has to get up to use the bathroom...twice
- the people that can't check their luggage and try to cram all that crap in the overhead.
- the snorer
- the two women that sit in the row behind and can't STFU the whole flight.
- superimportantlaptopman that needs to refer to all the stuff in his bag the whole time, but his cheap ass company flies him in coach
- the idiots that stop at the bottom of the crowded escalator to get their bearings while the rest of the airport piles up behind them
- the 98 pounder with the 200 pounds of luggage...that she could get in.
- starbucks lady with the 1000 degree cup of coffe poised on the edge of the tray table.


Yeah, it's a big world, we all have to live in it. :D

lol Sounds good to me! :D