Combat experience vets - need some info

[rrpjr]

Vets: To those of who who have served in or around combat areas in which civilian casualties were a fact or an "issue,' could you give me some idea of the range of reactions among soldiers, airmen, officers?

Also, in your view, is the military making every best effort to avoid civilian casualties in Iraq as they claim?

Please, just qualified views. Initial research on a piece we are producing.

Please feel free to pm me if you'd rather not post your thoughts publicly.

Thanks so much.

[Jim Richards]

fintpaste!!!

[pwd72s]

I'm not a combat vet...but it seems to me that in a war where the enemy doesn't wear a uniform, our guys are doing a miraculous job of staying away from civilians. Probably to their own detriment.

[azasadny]

I was in Desert Shield/Storm and we made every possible attempt to avoid civilian and "collateral" injuries and deaths, but it is unavoidable in war. I was a medic (USN Corpsman) and had to treat women, children, seniors... war sucks so bad I don't have the words to describe how bad it is, especially when innocents are injured or killed... Nobody likes to thinks about the innocents that they help to kill and injure, that's just one of the most horrible things about war that we carry with us the rest of our lives.

[rrpjr]

Thanks very much Art. That's the sort of insight I'm looking for.

I imagine there might be other views, the fatalistic one for instance that "such things are beyond my control, I can only be concerned about me and my men." No?

I'm helping an actor develop a short film, a sort of "conversations about war." He's an Army brat and has his own thoughts, but I wanted to get an idea about this issue from the vets here. This place is a rich resource.

[fintstone]

Most folks with actual combat either cannot talk about it (if they are special ops, etc) or refuse to talk about about it (war really is hell). Although I will not talk about actual situations or scenarios...and cannot...I can tell you that we take civilian casualties very seriously..and that is why there are very few (contrary to press reports which are mostly enemy propaganda). This is taken into consideration even for testing and developing new weapons. When we design new bombs/missiles, we use model and simulation to determine potential for fratricide and collateral damage. That is why our current weapons are so much smaller in yield and so much more accurate (and so expensive). I am currently working on two programs which use better technology and tactics to better identify noncombatants and our own personnel so we can distinguish them from the enemy. We are, and have been putting a great deal of energy and money into this since the first gulf war when that was first really seen as an issue.

[Jim Richards]

"We?" Are you included in that "we?"

[fintstone]

Yes.

[Jim Richards]

Really?

[fintstone]

Really.

[Jim Richards]

I'm amazed. What war?

[fintstone]

All the ones you know about and some you don't.

[Jim Richards]

The Civil War?

[fintstone]

Only served for the past 30 years. I can't speak about the Civil War. Talk to Pat.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by fintstone
All the ones you know about and some you don't.

Translation= Fintstone has no direct combat experience.

[rrpjr]

Thanks, fintstone.

[fintstone]

No problem. I'm sorry these guys are trying to keep you from getting the info you requested. It looks like their stupidity has driven others away. The accidental killing of noncombatants is always painful and admitting doing so puts one in the position of possibly being held responsible...regardless of circumstances. Just fighting in this type of war where the enemy hides among civilians, has serious potential for both fratricide and noncombatant deaths. The enemy know how badly this affects our troops and the General public in the US...so they do their best to either create a crossfire or use women and children as women and children. If you have any specific questions, please PM me and I will help if I can.

[HardDrive]

Originally posted by fastpat
Translation= Fintstone has no direct combat experience.

So? I have an uncle that works on weapons systems. He has never seen combat, but he certainly could talk volumes about avoiding collateral damage (ie, make sure bomb does not drop on wrong house).

[fintstone]

Thanks HardDrive, but I did not say that I do not have combat experience. I only posted to help out rrpjr...not to debate my service. I have told them many times that it is none of their business and will not fall for their tricks. Only a moron would come to a thread where someone is seeking information on a serious subject to trash those trying to help. Whether I know what I am talking about or not is up to rrpjr who asked for info to determine...not some clown who wants to start an argument about something they know nothing about. This is what I do and my employer clearly considers that I know what I am doing.

[DonDavis]

Originally posted by fintstone
Most folks with actual combat either cannot talk about it (if they are special ops, etc) or refuse to talk about about it (war really is hell).

Concur. Well stated, too.