Who is at fault for the trouble in Gaza - Page 2

Chocaholic · 02-01-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
That's pure Israel Lobby agitprop, and nothing else.

The Israeli's must returned all stolen lands, then there might be peace.

Yes, we all know that the Palestinians practice a religion of Peace and Love. I'm sure that if Israel disarmed, the peace-loving Palestinians would also put down their weapons....and stop strapping bombs to their children so they can blow themselves up in crowded Israeli shopping malls.

Pat, you're so insighful.

fastpat · 02-01-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john70t
Doesn't Israel/Palistine really belong to the Caenanite's, or whoever was there before them?

Let's not forget we are all living on American Indian tribal lands, fresh from less than 200 years ago.

Some of the land wasn't being used by anyone, and some of the land was purchased from the previous owners fair and square. Most of the land in South Carolina was acquired that way at first, or by aiding one tribe to conquer another tribe. That was pretty common in the 17th century colonization period.

fastpat · 02-01-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chocaholic
Yes, we all know that the Palestinians practice a religion of Peace and Love.

Since far more Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli's, I'd say that there's enough "murder for religion" for both sides. There is no indication that the Israeli's want peace with the Palestinians using the lawful borders of Israel as drawn up in 1948.

Quote:

I'm sure that if Israel disarmed, the peace-loving Palestinians would also put down their weapons....and stop strapping bombs to their children so they can blow themselves up in crowded Israeli shopping malls. Pat, you're so insighful.

Since you have nothing with which to support your implied point, the above statement is utterly meaningless. The Israeli's are no better than the Palestinians in the conflict.

Rearden · 02-01-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
Since you have nothing with which to support your implied point, the above statement is utterly meaningless. The Israeli's are no better than the Palestinians in the conflict.

Let the above statement stand alone as a testament to the writer's absurd ignorance.

fastpat · 02-01-2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rearden
Let the above statement stand alone as a testament to the writer's absurd ignorance.

Prove it big boy.

In order to do that, you'll have to show how the europeans who immigrated to Palestine from the mid to late 19th century acquired the land on which to establish their settlements, and how they acquired the land from the British after 1918, and then how they acquired the land from 1948 on to today, and how they did all that legitimately.

Brian Cameron · 02-01-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlueSkyJaunte
And who stole the land from the Jews in the first place?

I always thought they sold it for a really, really good price and then moved to Lithuania.

masraum · 02-01-2007, 03:57 PM

For the first time ever, I actually think fastpat is right. That's scary.

As I see it, a group of people lived in a place, some of them for generations, and after WWII, a bunch of other countries, came in through the people who had lived there for years off of their land and gave that land to the Jews. The people who had lived there for many years were then given some crap land. I suspect that if the rest of the world ganged up and did the same with Texas, or Alaska, or Florida, or California, that the rest of America would probably fight until we won which is what the Palestinians are doing.

Rearden · 02-01-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by masraum
For the first time ever, I actually think fastpat is right. That's scary.

As I see it, a group of people lived in a place, some of them for generations, and after WWII, a bunch of other countries, came in through the people who had lived there for years off of their land and gave that land to the Jews. The people who had lived there for many years were then given some crap land. I suspect that if the rest of the world ganged up and did the same with Texas, or Alaska, or Florida, or California, that the rest of America would probably fight until we won which is what the Palestinians are doing.

Well, it was British land before they gave up the Mandate (approved by the League of Nations in 1922) in 1947 and passed it on to the UN. "Palestinians" weren't thrown off the land -- they left in order to allow the Arab armies to kick the brand-new Israelis off the land. Oops. Didn't quite work. The descendants of those that didn't leave are still Israeli citizens.

In 1947, the population breakdown in "Palestine" was roughly:

630,000 Jews
143,000 Christians
1.181 million Muslims

Chocaholic · 02-01-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
[B]Since far more Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli's, I'd say that there's enough "murder for religion" for both sides. There is no indication that the Israeli's want peace with the Palestinians using the lawful borders of Israel as drawn up in 1948.

Since you have nothing with which to support your implied point, the above statement is utterly meaningless. The Israeli's are no better than the Palestinians in the conflict.

Are you for real? Do you watch the news? Any news? When was the last time an Israeli committed a suicide bombing in a public venue full of Palestinian civilians? Maybe a public school bus, or restaurant? Just when I start thinking you actually have a teaspoon of common sense, you prove me wrong.

You're getting very predictable my friend. When backed into a corner of common sense, you predictably spout a meaningless statement like the one above. Stick to Medical advice...you seem to have some knowledge in that arena at least.

fastpat · 02-01-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rearden
"Palestinians" weren't thrown off the land -- they left in order to allow the Arab armies to kick the brand-new Israelis off the land. Oops. Didn't quite work.

That's not what happened either. See references to the Stern Gang, looking specifically at Avraham Stern, the Irgun, and others of the Zionist movement. Real ethnic cleansing.

fastpat · 02-01-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chocaholic
Are you for real? Do you watch the news? Any news? When was the last time an Israeli committed a suicide bombing in a public venue full of Palestinian civilians?

The Israeli's did exactly that when they didn't have weapons provided by the US government, see the King David Hotel bombing for the best known example, there were many others. Now they use Apache helicopter to murder Palestinians.

Moneyguy1 · 02-01-2007, 05:28 PM

pat....

Are you always correct or does it just seem that way? Do you ever agree with anyone except yourself?

Seems to me that there are more problems in this world that any single nation or group of nations will ever resolve. The matter of who owns what has been played over and over since before recorded history. Egypt. Mesopotamia, Persia, Roman Empire, Germania, etc. etc. etc.. Get over it. Winners occupy territory lost by others. As to the "honerable purchase of land" from native Americans, let us (a) remember the difference in understanding between the sellers and the buyers and (b) come out west and discuss this with the Navajo, the Zuni, the Hopi, the Apache, all of whom fought to preserve their land and were either relocated or relegated to other locations in the country against their will.

Others have points of view that are at least as valid as yours.

That being said, the U.N. and the White House could profit from your advice. Why not volunteer? Simply sharing it with us will not solve the myrad problems!!

fastpat · 02-01-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
pat....

Are you always correct or does it just seem that way? Do you ever agree with anyone except yourself?

Seems to me that there are more problems in this world that any single nation or group of nations will ever resolve. The matter of who owns what has been played over and over since before recorded history. Egypt. Mesopotamia, Persia, Roman Empire, Germania, etc. etc. etc.. Get over it. Winners occupy territory lost by others. As to the "honerable purchase of land" from native Americans, let us (a) remember the difference in understanding between the sellers and the buyers and (b) come out west and discuss this with the Navajo, the Zuni, the Hopi, the Apache, all of whom fought to preserve their land and were either relocated or relegated to other locations in the country against their will.

Others have points of view that are at least as valid as yours.

That being said, the U.N. and the White House could profit from your advice. Why not volunteer? Simply sharing it with us will not solve the myrad problems!!

Bob, keep in mind that I'm not advocating any overt action by anyone here. What I am demanding, because some of what you say is correct, is a cessation of action by the US government underwriting any side in the mideast conflicts. The area, rightly called Chaostan by author and financial advisor, Richard Maybury, will never been completely settled and calm. We Americans need to ensure that we stay out of the problems there.

Moneyguy1 · 02-01-2007, 05:50 PM

Hey...

I agree it would be nice if all of these foljs would just sing Kumbya and realize their common background, but it ain't gonna happen. Isolationism didn't work in the first part of the twentieth century, nor fif it work after(during) the Great epression. The world is so damn small now that we are less than 35 minuts from anyone anywhgere "reaching out and touching someone" with a thermonuclear device.

My argument is that we are going at it in a ham handed way; no finesse, no guile, just a real bad case of pr!ck waving, which always results in escalation.

But, having said that, the world ain't perfect, and there will always be strife somewhere. The basic idea is to keep one's head down, but be prepared to intervene whan and only when absolutely necessary, and do it with overwhelming force.

Jim Richards · 02-01-2007, 05:54 PM

Bob, is your keyboard scrogged, or is this the after happy hour posting?

Rearden · 02-01-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
That's not what happened either. See references to the Stern Gang, looking specifically at Avraham Stern, the Irgun, and others of the Zionist movement. Real ethnic cleansing.

That's a partial truth. The "Palestinian" exodus was a combination of voluntary and involuntary. Read all about it on Wikipedia .

It is curious that you revere the death squads and suicide bombers of Iraq, referring to them as "freedom fighters". But you refer to Irgun and Lehi as "ethnic cleansers". Oh yea. They're Jewish.

fastpat · 02-01-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rearden
That's a partial truth. The "Palestinian" exodus was a combination of voluntary and involuntary. Read all about it on Wikipedia .

It is curious that you revere the death squads and suicide bombers of Iraq, referring to them as "freedom fighters". But you refer to Irgun and Lehi as "ethnic cleansers". Oh yea. They're Jewish.

I don't revere any of them. I list them to show that US government involvement is wrong, wrongheaded, and completely unnecessary.

Jim Richards · 02-01-2007, 05:59 PM

It might be worth mentioning the underlying motivations for the "voluntary" exodus of the Palestineans.

fastpat · 02-01-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Hey...

I agree it would be nice if all of these foljs would just sing Kumbya and realize their common background, but it ain't gonna happen. Isolationism didn't work in the first part of the twentieth century, nor fif it work after(during) the Great epression. The world is so damn small now that we are less than 35 minuts from anyone anywhgere "reaching out and touching someone" with a thermonuclear device.

My argument is that we are going at it in a ham handed way; no finesse, no guile, just a real bad case of pr!ck waving, which always results in escalation.

But, having said that, the world ain't perfect, and there will always be strife somewhere. The basic idea is to keep one's head down, but be prepared to intervene whan and only when absolutely necessary, and do it with overwhelming force.

No intervention. Non-interventionism isn't isolationism of any kind.

Moneyguy1 · 02-01-2007, 06:05 PM

Jim

My keyboard is wierd and sometimes has a mind of its own. I have had it checked and it did the sam to the tech. I have to slow down when I type and that drives me nuts since then I think faster than I type!!

pat: Respectfully: In what essential ways do non-intervention and isolationism differ?