Brother having heart problems, failure.....

[lendaddy]

Thanks Rick, that's tough info man. He said they exprected him to have hypertension and that stumped them when he didn't. Any ideas there?

[Jim Richards]

Len, best wishes on your brother's condition improving quickly & significantly.

[syncroid]

Hang in there Lendaddy. I hope that your brother is in good hands. Modern medicine is amazing! My old man has gone through three open heart procedures for valve replacement. I will be due for my own valve job sometime in the future as well. (Its in the family genes)

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Thanks Rick, that's tough info man. He said they exprected him to have hypertension and that stumped them when he didn't. Any ideas there?

It depends on the mechanism of injury. Anabolic steroids themselves can cause heart failure, as well as various recreational drugs, most notably cocaine. Steroids have been reported in various cases to cause a condition called dilated cardiomyopathy, which is basically just medical mumbo-jumbo for heart failure with a dilated heart due to the heart muscle fibers deteriorating. Steroids can also cause hypertension (elevated BP) but the two do not necessarily have to happen together. The other factor that might play in is that as the heart weakens, its ability to generate pressure decreases. Thus, heart failure due to elevated BP will result in heart failure with low BP due to pump failure at the end stages.

If we assume that he has had a significant exposure to steroids, that could be the major source of his problem. Alcohol abuse also can cause heart failure, but it usually takes longer, someone who is age 35 would really have to hit the bottle hard since the teenage years to get that amount of damage. The other major player would be cocaine or methamphetamine. Any stimulant drugs can cause damage due to high heart rates from the drug as well as direct damage to the muscle itself.

BTW, I'm not trying to be a downer here, I just feel like I would want the straight facts if I were in your situation. Please don't take offense.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
It depends on the mechanism of injury. Anabolic steroids themselves can cause heart failure, as well as various recreational drugs, most notably cocaine. Steroids have been reported in various cases to cause a condition called dilated cardiomyopathy, which is basically just medical mumbo-jumbo for heart failure with a dilated heart due to the heart muscle fibers deteriorating. Steroids can also cause hypertension
(elevated BP) but the two do not necessarily have to happen together. The other factor that might play in is that as the heart weakens, its ability to generate pressure decreases. Thus, heart failure due to elevated BP will result in heart failure with low BP due to pump failure at the end stages.

If we assume that he has had a significant exposure to steroids, that could be the major source of his problem. Alcohol abuse also can cause heart failure, but it usually takes longer, someone who is age 35 would really have to hit the bottle hard since the teenage years to get that amount of damage. The other major player would be cocaine or methamphetamine. Any stimulant drugs can cause damage due to high heart rates from the drug as well as direct damage to the muscle itself.

BTW, I'm not trying to be a downer here, I just feel like I would want the straight facts if I were in your situation. Please don't take offense.

More good info, thanks and I appreciate the truth....don't apologize.

[creaturecat]

Originally posted by lendaddy
I'll ask him yet tonight but he said he'll see his chart tomorrow. Do people actually "get better" from this kind of thing?

happened to a friend at work.......approx 10 years ago.........he got better and is still active today. Wishing your brother the best.

[lendaddy]

So Rick, have you seen or heard of people recovering from something like this? Or does it always end in heroics?

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by creaturecat
happened to a friend at work.......approx 10 years ago.........he got better and is still active today. Wishing your brother the best.

Very interested in details, thanks!

Prayers to your family.

[lendaddy]

Another thing that makes little sense to me is the chest Xray from six months ago where his heart was normal size. Is such a rapid increase a clue one way or another? It gives me hope that it's just an infection or virus or something, though I don't know why.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Another thing that makes little sense to me is the chest Xray from six months ago where his heart was normal size. Is such a rapid increase a clue one way or another? It gives me hope that it's just an infection or virus or something, though I don't know why.

It's possible for pericarditis to have that effect, but that's a question best answered by a Cardiologist. Tests to determine pathogen specificity take a few days.

[bigchillcar]

len,
are they giving your brother anything specific that you know of for the congestion? lasix or spironolactone or in conjuction to try and rid his body of the excess fluid? hoping the best for him. i too have done powerlifting/bodybuilding myself for 26 years (since 15), done strength coaching, but always avoided the temptation to use steroids. i will remember him tomorrow in chapel where i go for daily prayer.
best,
ryan

[lendaddy]

Thanks again guys, I'll let you know what I learn tomorrow.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by bigchillcar
len,
are they giving your brother anything specific that you know of for the congestion? lasix or spironolactone or in conjuction to try and rid his body of the excess fluid? hoping the best for him. i too have done powerlifting/bodybuilding myself for 26 years (since 15), done strength coaching, but always avoided the temptation to use steroids. i will remember him tomorrow in chapel where i go for daily prayer.
best,
ryan

Steroids can have a seriously detrimental effect on the immune system with some people. Some times it's at least partially reversable.

[JavaBrewer]

We're pulling for you and your bro Len. I'm *barren* of sibs (never had any) so I can't imagine what it feels like to have someone so close go through this.

[jriera]

All the best

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally posted by lendaddy
So Rick, have you seen or heard of people recovering from something like this? Or does it always end in heroics?

Yes, people can certainly recover. It all really depends on how extensive the damage is and how well the heart heals after the damage stops. Again, I am assuming that the problem here is a foreign substance, if that is an incorrect assumption then we would be dealing with an idiopathic (meaning without cause) cardiomyopathy which actually would be more difficult since treatment would be problematic. If you don't know what is causing the problem it is tough to treat it.

There are several instances where the heart is sort of stunned by one thing or another, viral infection being the most common. A viral myocarditis can cause dilated failure with resolution, sometimes amazingly so. I remember a case of a pregnant woman who had heart failure and she recovered fully after delivering the baby.

An interesting one was described by the Japanese. Takotsubo cardiomyopathy is associate with severe stress of one form or another. The left ventricle dilates and heart failure ensues. In many patients the problem completely resolves in 2-3 weeks. It is called Takotsubo cardiomyopathy because the left ventricle looks like a Japanese octopus trap on echo (which is called a takotsubo). Saw a case of this last year, really amazing stuff.

So the short answer is yes, absolutely these things can get better. It really depends on the damage to the heart, the cause of the damage and whether that cause can be reversed or recovered from, and your brother's ability to heal.

[JeremyD]

Hang in there Len - my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. One of my bosses best friends got the 10% diagnosis after years of partying - 4 years later he's still plugging along.

[speeder]

Wow, just got home and saw this. I will put him in my prayers tonight. It sounds very serious, obviously, but he has youth and strength going for him.

I just got word 2 hours ago that one of my crowd of close friends in Mpls is in the hospital after a major stroke or aneurism, (not clear on the distinction right now), he might not make it through the night. I will be busy praying tonight for both of them.

[lendaddy]

Thanks again Rick and everyone else for your thoughts and prayers.

edit: Removed info.