Vouchers and relatively new strong political policy backlash has caused a depressing moral dilemma to the educational establishment. It's either save your ass and program students to pass defined tests or risk creating tension within one's educational establishment.

Change by its very nature causes tension. From the supposedly moral high ground to a bureaucratic minnow in one generation makes retirement appear as salvation. Kinda like a starving person being forced to dine on his own body.

Those of us who have been in the education community for the long haul have seen plenty of "changes". We've also seen plenty of things that don't work. I'm sure there are teachers that are better than others, that's going to happen. There are also schools that are better than others. That is going to happen too.

If someone finds a magic formula for 100% success in education, lets do it.

In trying to copy some of the success of the educational system with Japan for instance, we find that the biggest thing missing is the respect that the community automatically gives to the teachers and education. The average Japanese student spends thousands of dollars per year for outside tutoring. When kids in the US come in and don't have any respect for their teachers or for learning, it makes things rather difficult. Some of the foreign countries do better than the US on tests (ie Timms report) because only the best students move on. There is automatic competition for doing better.

The day we have 100% support will be the day we have 100% success.

When people think they are helping our educational system by bashing the NEA, they are doing nothing to help. There is room for improvenent in any system no doubt. We somehow have a nation of pessimists!
All lawyers are bad
All politicians are bad.
Bill Gates is bad.
They do this, they do that, whine, whine, complain, but don't roll up your sleeves and pitch in to improve things. OR if you do pitch in, give up right away, because the problem is always somebody else.

My son just got back from spending the weekend with his grandparents. The last time my parents saw him was the end of December at our house in NC.

So 5 weeks later he is visiting them. I should also point out he is also 5 weeks into his new private school and 7 weeks since he was in Public School.

My mother pulled me aside and could not stop about how much change she sees in him. My wife and I noticed it too. He is no longer afraid to speak up and is upbeat. Genrally a much happier kid, when we talked to him about how he likes his new school, he said its cool because he is no longer afraid to ask a techer for help when he does not understand what is being taught.

He does not get berated for not understanding. The other kids are kind in the new school and if he does not understadn he is not made fun of, instead, they try to help the teacher figure out a way to help my son same goes for anyone else in his class they all help each other out.

It seemed to go ignored earlier in this thread, in my sons public school the teachers were on their way home before the kids were rolling on their busses. they worked a 8 hour day with paid lunch and full benefits.

If they did have to work a 60 hour week, welcome to the real world. When I was salary at a big corporation I worked 60 hours a week too except 20 of my hours were not worked at home. The were at the office away from my family.

There is a huge difference between putting in a couple of hours in the evening at home and not being home for a couple more hours.

Back to my son, we are heartbroked we did not pick up on the abuse the teachers were doling out to him sooner. We wished he spoke up and we just figured they were being strict, we had no idea they were beating him down so bad.

When I asked some teachers on a MINI forum (Iknew there were teachers there I met them) for help the first line out of them all was I have no idea how hard they work, they were defending thse scumbag teachers first and considering my son might actually be getting screwed over second. Its like they are all programmed to say the same thing over and over no matter the question.

[/QUOTE] A lot of schools do not allow the teachers to be in the building past a certain time. In my wifes case it was a 1/2 hour after dismissal.

I am pleased that your son is in a healthy environment and those "teachers" that were less concerned about his education than defending themselves suck. They should find something else to do.

Jim
I'm happy to hear that you son is achieving success! Great! Wonderful.

I hear stories like this all the time. It is not necessarily changing from public to private schools though. It is sometimes that a change is needed. Sometimes a different teacher, school, class, environment. Sometimes a combination of events can trigger a success. I had a high school student who did nothing in a pre-algebra class, D- at best, inattentive, tired, little effort. We recently made up a new course with more hands on learning, group experiences, (but it was really 7th grade math) for kids who weren't getting traditional math (drill and practice). This same student is in her second year of "Integrated Math" and getting a straight A's, attentive, active, involved. Sure she is a Junior and really doing 8th grade math(don't tell her), but she is succeeding.

Sometimes a student is just suddenly ready. I believe that Confucius said "There are always plenty of teachers, just a lack of students". In other words you have to be ready for learning before you can learn. While I'm quoting Confucius, here is one that applies to this thread is "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." If you want something you are going to have to put in some effort to get it, it will not arrive to you exactly as you want it. If there is no intention to actually understand the problem, you will not understand the answer if it is right in front of you.

This has been a running problem with my son since Kindergarten where he got left back.

I was always embarressed for him to meet people in public because he was like an emtpy shell, it frustrated me because I was an outgoing kid and he is so introverted. (sp?)

Now, as the last 4 weeks have progressed he is coming out of his shell. He has always been fin at home it was as soon as he encountered an adult outside of immediate family we saw him withdraw. He did not like adults at all.

I used to be a proponent for teachers, every year at open house I would give my sons teacher/teachers my office phone # my cel phone# and my e-mail address, I explained I owned my own business and would be honored to help them with class supplies. I may not have a lot of time to be there helping but I can help them supply their class since the governemtn and the lottery fail to do so.

Out of 8 years of classes 2 teachers actually took up my offer. One of them revieved enough copy paper and printer cartidges for her class computer to last 3 years. The other got enough supplies for the entire school year with enough left over to help out the next year too.

Only 2 teachers took the initiative to take me up on my offer.


Any time there was an issue where my son felt a teacher was not being fair with him, I explained the poor teacher has a lot of students and is probably overwhelmed to give cut her / him some slack and just get his work done. I offered him help at home with any issue he needed help with so as not to tax the "poor teacher".

On 2 occasions I felt teacher crossed the line with their tempers of their inability to use tact. The first time I met with the teacher and she started to argue with me and stopped short, thought for a moment about my issue and apologized to me then to my son in class for calling him a pathetic in front of the whole class.

The second teacher lied to me about what she said to my son and we battled until my son was pulled from Public School and is now in private school. It is now as I look back and realize how much these people suck and how much I let my son down not standing up and defending him sooner. Its hard for a well mannered, polite, well behaved little boy / young man to stand up for themselves against evil mean spirited people that shoufl be retired and not dealing with children anymore.

My sons changes are a direct result of him being put into a much better enviroment where he can be himself and he now sees that adults outside his family can be kind people.

The change in him is a testimony of how broken the public school system is.

Crazy how people who benefit from an inside view seem to feel differently from those who don't.

Jim there are lousy teachers for sure. Parents getting involved can help to ward this off. Talk to other parents in your kids class, see if they have similar complaints. Take it to the school administration as you have a RIGHT to a quality education!

And Paul, i didn't quote that from some lousy NEA newsletter.

My belief is that there ought to be universal community service, let all the detractors of, say, public education, spend a year in the schools they so disparage. Might change their views, or not:(

Jim. Thank goodness you have found success for your son. I am happy for you and him. However, I do not believe that one instance proves that all teachers and the entire public school system is defunct. There are problems to solve, for sure. Kids are considerably different today than they were even 10 years ago. Teachers who have had tried ant true methods are finding that they are not as successful as they may have once been. New successful methods are slow to filter into an environment that has seen more things that don't work than solutions.

Some teachers probably did not take you up on your offer to help with their classroom supplies as they have seen their share of dead ends. They don't really have time to track down every lead. Some days there is barely time to scarf down a yogurt for lunch, let alone, answer emails, phone calls, write out sub plans, go to meetings, etc. The thing teachers lack most is time. Look at the number of workers who have plenty of time, while at work, to spend time on the Pelican forums! Not too many teachers I'd bet.

The Tachers on the MINI forum I used to frequent were on there a lot. They are probably the top posters and were at almost every social event as well.

all it took for a teacher to do was drop an e-mail or make a call either would take less than a minute of their day. Incidentally the 2 teachers that did take me up were both awesome teachers that were younger and more interested in the kids.

All the ones that did not were older and seemed to just be going through the montions.

When we met with his math teacher 3 years ago she was an old bat that just kept saying to us over and over, I have been teaching this curriculum for 30 years and never had a problem. I do not understand why your son does not get it. Our response was he does not, you are the "professional" here and we are seeking out an alternative meathod to get this throug to him, any help or insight you can offer would be appreciated. Her response was "I have been teaching this curriculum for 30 years I do not understand why he does not get it.". Banginh my head against a wall would have been more productive than meeting with her.

I taught my son math that year and I am not a teacher.


I have all kinds of stories allt hrough his school years it reached a head in Middle School. Some say go to the admisistrator like they are going to help you. Once you do that the school goes into defensive mode and they team up agaist you as the enemy.

I went to my son teacher, GC, then principle trying to get an issue resolved and it it resulted in was retaliation against my son. The one thing I feared the most and the sole reason I never spoke up earlier. So my only options at that point was to back down and let them know they can attack my son in school, or pull him out and let them know they cannot do this and get away with it.

I even tried to get the disctrict supervisor involved and she never returned my phone calls or my e-mails.

I stand by my statement, public schools are broken.

I was just cleaning out some old magazines and found this time front article and thought it was appropriate.

Since entering private school, my son needed to get a laptop because most of their work is done on there. They are encouraged to research online anything they feel they need to and most of their work is done electronically and printed out. This is 180° from what he was doing in Public School.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1568480,00.html

How to Bring Our Schools Out of the 20th Century

Opening paragraph.

Maybe if the teachers go on strike AGAIN that will fix it. Or maybe the answer is to put more millions of dollars into the teachers political action committee run by the teachers unions. Nope, that can't be the answer. They've been trying that for years and it hasn't helped the kids at all.

Maybe if 1/4 of all the students in the California public education system actually spoke fluent english it would help. Oops, I can't say that, it isn't politically correct and might offend the millions of criminals who are in this country illegally. I hope the ACLU doesn't sue me for that statement.

Well at least you had 2 awesome teachers! Too bad it wasn't more though.

Yes some of the older teachers have seen a lot and had the life sucked out of them, over and over. Its not like they were a pro football player and could just do it a few years and live off the proceeds. Our society values a lot of things more that it does education.

My wife & I have decided to enroll our son in private school this year beginning with pre-K. Many things have factored into our decision, attending their open house a couple of weeks ago cinched the deal, their academics & results are superior.

The experience I had with my daughter in public schools was the beginning, like Jim, I found a few amoral teachers & no accountability from administrators. The common thread through out her education was a willingness to push her through the system rather than be bothered with ensuring she absorbed the material. I spent a lot of time tutoring her & the teachers were unable to give her the attention she needed, probable due to class size.

I have a friend at work who has a rambunctious 8 year old. He attended several teacher/administrator meetings early last year to discuss his son's behavior. They strongly suggested that he medicate his child, which he never considered. He sent his son to Sylvan Learning Center to get him through the rest of first grade. This year he enrolled him in a private school & now he is flourishing without any extra tutoring. His 10 year old son will begin attending with his brother next year.

Finally, we like the idea that our son will be attending class with other children in families that share the same values that we do. We are blessed to be able to afford our son the opportunity, but there are programs that provide families with less money, but the same values, the means to attend the same school. I also like the idea that the parents have more accountability as well as the teachers. If my kid is a rotten apple he will not last long at this school & that goes for teachers as well.

I thing that if i had kids in a perfect world I'd send them to school in Spain or Portugal.

New meaning to the term Bussing ?

So good student/teacher ratios, the ability to boot bad students (and teachers) and parents who care are what make a good school. How about that. Revolutionary! What's that? Teachers across the nation are you saying this is what you've been asking for all along?! Well I'll be a monkey's uncle, how do you like that?!


We as a nation have set our priorities and are now paying the price. When we pay people $10 mil./year to run around with a football and act like thugs and build them stadiums with taxpayer money but can't pay teachers enough to buy a simple home in their district/county.......well we get what we asked for.

ok

I am a teacher for a local college.. Yup they pay us well. do I think I am underpaid hell no would I take more hell yeah!.. I got a great gig and feel very fotunate

Now remember k-12 around my area get paid crap and have to put up with allot more BS then I as I get teach people metals and welding..

Unfortunately education is like almost everything else (except maybe welfare programs) at all government levels. A lot of talk but zero action or conviction.