Amendent 187 - Amnesty for illegals

[turbo6bar]

I've only seen remarks about the Kennedy-Kerry amendent tied to the minimum wage act. Apparently, it allows illegal aliens to obtain an H-5 visa and change status to nonimmigrant. I suppose it is like an amnesty program.

If you've seen articles or commentary on this bill please link or copy text here.
jurgen

[Joeaksa]

I really hate the way that both sides tie ANYTHING to any other bill.

The way they try to shove legislature through that would not pass otherwise, then when someone votes against the minimum wage bill to keep the illegal alien law from passing they label them a jerk.

Put each and every bill and law as a stand alone issue. Yes, it would take longer. Get a house in DC and frigging live there the way you are supposed to and get to work on cleaning up this country.

BTW do not get used to it as after two terms as a govt employee you go home and get a real job IMHO. These people like Kennedy and Kerry (and the Repubs in the same boat) who make sucking off of the public dole make me sick. We need term limits.

[Jeff Higgins]

Line item veto. Long overdue.

[DaveE]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
I really hate the way that both sides tie ANYTHING to any other bill.

The way they try to shove legislature through that would not pass otherwise, then when someone votes against the minimum wage bill to keep the illegal alien law from passing they label them a jerk.

Put each and every bill and law as a stand alone issue. Yes, it would take longer. Get a house in DC and frigging live there the way you are supposed to and get to work on cleaning up this country.

BTW do not get used to it as after two terms as a govt employee you go home and get a real job IMHO. These people like Kennedy and Kerry (and the Repubs in the same boat) who make sucking off of the public dole make me sick. We need term limits.

a BIG +1!

[Jim Richards]

+2

[john70t]

+3 That needed to be said, and done.

[speeder]

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins
Line item veto. Long overdue.

The problem is that Bush would not veto that.

[NICKG]

if they want to be legal, let them pay income taxes on the back due from their illegal years....max 5 years. then that will prove to me that they deserve to get what I paid for those years. If they don't want to do that, deport their asses....plain and simple

[5axis]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
. These people like Kennedy and Kerry (and the Repubs in the same boat) who make sucking off of the public dole make me sick. We need term limits.

Eliminate the pay. Let it be a volunteer position that one does out of a sense of duty.
Maybe give them dorm style housing and a cafeteria allowance.

[artplumber]

Originally posted by speeder
The problem is that Bush would not veto that.

But it would make the legislature actually go on record as who voted for it.

[MRM]

Originally posted by NICKG
if they want to be legal, let them pay income taxes on the back due from their illegal years....max 5 years. then that will prove to me that they deserve to get what I paid for those years. If they don't want to do that, deport their asses....plain and simple

Taxes are with held from all paychecks, legal or illegal. If they're working for cash they won't pay taxes, but most illegals are working for "legitimate" companies who swear they don't know they're illegal.

Illegals pay into Social Security but have no right to get it back. A huge amount of our SS deficit is being floated by the profits on SS deductions from illegals who can't get SS benefits.

In total, illegals pay more into taxes than get back.

[NICKG]

Originally posted by MRM
Taxes are with held from all paychecks, legal or illegal. If they're working for cash they won't pay taxes, but most illegals are working for "legitimate" companies who swear they don't know they're illegal.

Illegals pay into Social Security but have no right to get it back. A huge amount of our SS deficit is being floated by the profits on SS deductions from illegals who can't get SS benefits.

In total, illegals pay more into taxes than get back.

I don't see how that is possible, what do they use as SSN or green card tax id? most illegals are paid cash or check (not payroll) so that statement can not be true

[dtw]

Originally posted by NICKG
I don't see how that is possible, what do they use as SSN or green card tax id? most illegals are paid cash or check (not payroll) so that statement can not be true

Source for your assertion that more illegals are paid under the table than not?

The fact is fake SSNs are a dime a dozen. They are VERY easy to obtain. I was a fast food manager out of college and saw hundreds of fakes - some even printed on old-school dot matrix printers. The SSA has not yet implemented computer systems that can process the onslaught of incoming numbers in real time. If they do catch an anomaly, they send a letter to the employer and employee. They generally never follow up on the letter.

Further, you cannot file a tax return with a fake SSN. So, if you gain employment on a fake SSN, but try to file a tax return, the return will be rejected (they do indeed link to SSA computer systems - try entering a bad SSN when you file your taxes in TurboTax. You'll get rejected within a day). Any tax refund you are due will be forever lost. That is why all savvy illegals claim maximum dependents, to minimize their withholdings (because they're never going to see them again).

The 'correct' answer for the SSA is to have a web and/or phone-based authorization system for employers to use, to screen applicants. It is a pretty easy answer - I'll give you three guesses as to why, mysteriously, such a system has not yet materialized.

[john70t]

With form W-7, the IRS makes it easy for you to to hire illegal aliens. Just mark "B".
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw7.pdf

[MRM]

DTW is correct. I used to do special investigative work for an insurance company. The basic deal for illegals is to get a SSN or make one up and provide that and a drivers license or a fake document to the employer, swear that they have the legal authorization to work, and start working. It takes at least a year for the bad SSN to trip a red flag, at which time the illegal apologizes for writing the number down wrong, which leads to another number and another year. If he actually has a legit number that was issued to someone else, it will never be noticed.

Illegal immigration wouldn't be the size it is without instiutional employers hiring illegals in large scale. In Minnesota the local meatpacking industry was almost shut down when the Feds did a sweep and netted hundreds. It's like that for factories, restrauants and produce farms throughout the country.

The millions of people here without work permits couldn't support themselves on a few bucks under the table for shoveling driveways, landscaping yards, and things like that. The fact is, you probably can't tell an illegal worker if you meet one at Wallmart, your local watering hole, or even your employer.

That leads to the convenient tax scam that's perpetuated against illegals. Their taxes are witheld, they have to pay Social Security tax, but they can't get the money back. If they buy stuff, they pay sales tax. If they own property or rent they pay property tax (indirectly through rent if they don't own) and in return they get minimal services.

So, in total, illegals pay into the tax and Social Security system more than they take out.

[dtw]

John, Form W-7 is not filed by employers, nor is a tax ITIN valid for obtaining work. Even a federally-issued work permit, with all the photos, holograms, and other doodads is not sufficient for obtaining legal employment without a provisional SSA ID.

MRM, I might go in with you on the assertion that illegals put more into SSA funds than they take out - but not so sure on taxes. I don't have time to look it up right now but I've read some articles that cited good data to the contrary.

[Jim727]

Add me to Joe's list. Line item veto has too many problems and gives the prez too much power.

My position is simple: anyone who wants to be a citizen of this country has to enter legally. Period.

As for the amendment, would like to see good docs so I can get the word around if this is all true. Went to Kerry's web site, but there is no mention of an association with such an amendment if there is such an amendment. Kennedy's web site was - shall I say - not helpful.

I am not going to vote for any candidate in any party that wants to give amnesty to illegals.

[turbo6bar]

I've done searches on google and yahoo and received a few hits on political web sites. I can't find confirmation the Senate passed this in the Minimum Wage Act.

I will update as soon as I get concrete info.
jurgen

[Jim727]

Thanks, Jurgen.

Let's not get irate until there's a reason. The internet is awash in bogus misinformation.

Jim