Ack help! 3.2 Carrera values?
 

While heading out to look at another car, I came across a VERY nice looking 1985 3.2. White, with dark blue interior. White Fuchs.
VERY nice looking, maintained locally by a reputable shop. I didn't scrutinize it though, because we were in a hurry to look at the other car, and get to work.

I can't find my Excellence with market updates for these cars.

Car has 180,000 miles. They want $17,000 for it.

If it passed inspections...would you, or would you not, at that price? It has at least some maint. records.
If not, what would you offer?

Will try to get pics soon.


OK..pics are up. Sorry for going pic-crazy!:D

seems high in price, lots of miles, engine rebuilt? course what they want and what they get can be very different.

Too high unless it has a completely rebuilt engine and transmission, IMO.

For $17K, you'd buy that same car with 100,000 less miles on it.

Agreed, I would pass on that car at that price. I managed to pick up my '85 Carrera with only 75,000 miles on it for less than that, and it's in very good shape mechanically and cosmetically.

Heck for $17k you could buy my moms '84 turbo look and have money left over for a tranny rebuild (maybe more!), since that is what caused it to get parked 2 years ago. Same as the '85 you are looking at but the limited TL package and it only has 73k miles on it.

The dark blue interior is rather difficult to replace damaged/worn parts too. Not too many of them out there...

Out here, PCA members think their cars are gold plated or something. Imagine a 1986 951 for $14,500 and a 1978 SC for $18,750, 1993 968 for $25,000.

Are those a bit high or am I out of touch?

"Car has 180,000 miles. They want $17,000 for it...."

They might want it, but they probably won't get it.

In good shape with no rebuild that car is worth $12K.

I should mention, it's on a car lot. Not a private sale. Will be heading out to get pics soon.

Being a newbe to a Carrera, that seems high. Make them justify the price or offer what you think is right. I paid a liitle more than I wanted to, but the guy had complete records and had just done a G50 clutch upgrade and new distributor, amongst other things. So, he got about half of those costs back. Otherwise, it was way overpriced for what it was. And, by waiting the seller out 2 weeks to see if he could find other buyers, I got all but 500 of what I wanted to pay to start with.

Wolfe, you can get a local white targa with burgundy interior in good shape with the same mileage right now for less. See Drago.

Do the words "Not on your best day..." hold any water?

Seriously, that's too much.

Here we go guys...here's some pics.
Scotter...show me pics of Drago's car..although I don't want a Targa, if it's spectacular, I'd consider it...
I'd try to talk them down a bit on this, of course.

http://wolfetone.com/911/IMG_0447.jpg
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http://wolfetone.com/911/IMG_0466.jpg
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It looks like a dealer car which is cause for a higher price in their eyes. Although to put things in perspective I paid about $10.5k for my car with 176k and a Targa. So the coupe, being an 85 adding to the value and the higher mileage subtracting, I would say no more than 14k out the door and that's being generous.

It is a dealer car. It's also the personal car of the dealership's owner.

I've uploaded a 6mb video taken while the car was running.
http://www.wolfetone.com/911/911.wmv

It was cold and wet today. Just condenstation from that pipe, I hope. This was taken after the car had been running a few minutes - less than 5.

About the car being high priced, it's not something I really mind as long as it's not outrageouly priced. I paid too much for the 924S I curently own - $6000 - because I love my job, and because I could finance it and better my credit rating, which was dreadful.
I'd feel much happier at $14k though!

I have also uploaded a smaller file that shows a "knock" the driver's side door makes when closing it. Not sure what it is, or how detrimental it is. I could not see any body panels that were binding...

http://www.wolfetone.com/911/door.wmv

She sounds really good. I would make an offer and see what he says. Keep looking as well. That looks completely 80s from the mats to the phone to the speakers. You have to bring that car into the 21st century and that is worth the $4-5k less you should offer him. If he is a dealer, he should be willing to negotiate because he probably picked the car up for $7k from an auction. Does the A/C work? Has it been upgraded? I get white smoke for the first minutes the car is running and then she is ready to go.

Even at that, I'd be leery. 187 is a lot of miles to ask 17K, or even 14K for IMHO, but I'm a cheap bastard.

Can the dealer provide the service history that shows a complete rebuild within the last 20K miles? Then it might be worth the 14-15K range.

Looks/sounds good to me. I'd recommend getting the service history and scanning through that before scheduling a PPI.

The dealer is obviously very attached to the car and really doesn't want to sell it. My last car was that color combo and I really liked it.
-Chris

The dealer obviously doesn't give a crap about the car if he's using a Fram oil filter...I'm serious! Although it appears very nice, imo at that mileage & price, you can do better.

Here's my two cents,

I'd rather have a car with half that many miles and preferably one from someplace that is less wet than Washington. The high mileage on that car means that it was probably used as a daily driver in whatever weather and that sort of usage takes it's toll over time. A 911 will look pretty good on the outside and less wonderful if you start taking things apart. Even the cars with galvanized body metal will rust, where water gets trapped between panels. There are lots of these places.

The clicking sound when shutting the door is the door check. That needs to be fixed. I've seen cars with high miles fatigue the door jamb steel around the mounting points for the check and actually crack. Not good.

The car looks like it has been steam-cleaned underneath. Now you have no idea of what leaks. There are lot's of little picky things to be fixed, like the foglight lenses. Running around in wet weather with a busted lens will corrode the internal parts pretty quickly. If the obvious things aren't taken care of, the hidden ones won't be either.

Then, there is the engine. Has it had a top-end rebuild? These things run a long time but they won't run forever.

All in all, I'd be looking at lower mileage cars. The difference in price will usually be offset by lower costs once you own it. There is nothing so expensive as a 911 that needs "a few minor things" and thinking you can buy it cheap (not that this one is cheap-the price is quite high) and get it back to 100% yourself, with a few little weekend projects. I've been there and done that and I have several cars that are a labor of love and are financial black holes. I have a mentality that these cars deserve to be saved and that has cost me a ton of money. I actually own cars that have cost me 150% of the purchase price to "fix up" and I don't mean cars that have had paint jobs or engine rebuilds.

JR

$17K is crazy money for that car. Hell for that price I would sell you my '86 and drive the car up to you!

I noticed that Fram too, and the lenses.

Nice Fram.

Wanna save $7K?

Same color, burgandy int., higher mileage, Targa.

Bet you $10 if you ran a CARFAX you'd find that this dealer has only recently acquired this car. It appears to be an honest car, but 17K is silly money for an "honest" 170K mile car.

I represent a number of used car wholesalers/dealers. If he wanted to get top money he'd have spent $150-300 and have the interior detailed, new quality mats, gotten rid of the 90's cell phone, etc.

Get the vin and let someone here run a CARFAX...Unless he's had multiple wives I bet this is a 3-4 owner car.

$12K tops.

At least you know the car is the same as when it was originally optioned. You have the Don Johnson white fuchs and the SUPA PIMP huge portable phone mounted to the shifter column. Check the cassette rack and see if there is some old Journey in there too!!

http://wolfetone.com/911/IMG_0466.jpg

P.S. $17k is crack smokin money for that car. I bought my 1984 Carrera 3.2 Targa with 62k miles on the clock for $14k 2 years ago. Coupes go for a little more than targas, but with 180k miles, that car is not worth more than $12-13k unless the engine/tranny has already been professionally rebuilt.

I paid $17.5 for my 87 with 173K miles 7.5 years ago.

Pretty car.

Interior should have been detailed, probably will look like new with a good pro detail and new mats.

Make sure all the blue interior bits are okay, especially the dash pad, you won't find them at an affordable price.

Get a PPI. At 170K, the car could consume $14K of repairs or $4K. I would assume at least $4K, just refreshing the suspension will likely cost that much.

Lower valve covers have been replaced. Why? Leaks, top-end job, other?

Seems like various nuts and bolts and bits are corroded. Car was not garaged?

If PPI checks out, I'd try to get it for $15K. The dealer certainly expects to be dickered down by a couple grand.

I'll bite, how can you tell the lower valve covers have been replaced?
-Chris

Just did that, actually.

Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
04/13/1994 125,769 Washington
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Edmonds, WA
Title #9410315108 Title or registration issued

04/14/1994 Washington
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Edmonds, WA
Title #902553002894104 Title or registration issued

08/28/1997 147,000 Washington
Inspection Station
Edmonds, WA Passed emissions inspection

08/05/1999 161,000 Washington
Inspection Station
Lynnwood, WA Passed emissions inspection

09/12/2001 Washington
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Edmonds, WA
Title #9410315108 Title or registration issued

02/09/2007 Porsche Cars North America No recalls open for repair.

The owner of the dealership tells me it's his personal car. From the paperwork he has, his story appears to check out. The paperwork from the local shop is the previous previous owner. It hasn't been driven for QUITE some time, as the plates are tagged for '02, and it has been garages.
In the pictures of the Enging bay, it appears there is rust above the engine, on the body. This brown stuff is NOT rust. I looked at it today. It reminds me of grease splattered onto a pan. You can scrape it off with your fingernail with some effort.

I drove the car today. WHile I am not real familliar witht he drivings of a 911, it seemed to drive GREAT.

I'll be checking out Drago's Targa tomorrow...

Well I owe you $10:confused:

WARNING: Even a high mileage 20 year old 911 with worn suspension will drive, ride and handle better than what most people are used to. Ride in one with a fresh suspension and it will astound you.

Like I said...its an honest 170K mile car. I just personally don't think its a $17K car. Also in the past 8 years its been driven only 9,000 miles? Hmmmmmmmm :rolleyes:

Pay up, Bub! :D
Don't know why he parked it, really. I think maybe he's more of a muscle car guy, as I've seen plenty of Mopar stuff there. We asked about a Challenger that was there awhile back, and he said "not for sale, it's mine"
There was a stupid-nice old "Iforget" there today. Freaking sweeet. Umm..Chev..Forrr..must..novvv...errr...Camaro, that's what it was..

it has been sitting since '02? Budget at least $3K to get it up to snuff, and more like $5K.

this thing is WAY overpriced. I'd run, not walk away from it unless it was well south of $15K.

OK, Wolfie....

One other thing...NEVER EVER EVER buy a used car in the rain. Which for you fokkers in the PNW means you can only buy a car during a 16 day window in July;)

I'd be really curious where he had it serviced...bet its "Oh I know a guy who does it on the cheap for me...."

Look like turbo valve covers.

I learned that when we bought my 924S. There was a little body damage we didn't notice, behind the right rear wheel, down near the bottom. Very little, like someone knee'd it or something. Hell, it's hard to spot, even in the dry.

The place it had been serviced is called Akers. They've been mentioned here by people before.

Well, dayum, I'm just wrong all the way aroumd.

It is a pretty car. I purxhased a 87 Carrera about 5 years ago in North Georgia. 81K miles, interior in similar condition as the one you're looking at, never wrecked but had had some touch up paint work (rock chips on hood, door dings fixed, etc). Not concours but presentable. A few small oil leaks but brand new tires, recent service, etc. Asking 19K; paid $15K.

The headliner on the sunroof was torn so I ended up replacing it all. Old windshield cracked so I replaced i. A few other odds and ends and I had another $2K in it by the time I got it right.

Drove it pretty much daily for 60K miles with no problems. Decided to freshen the motor as oil consumption was going up. Fortunately (for me at least) I represented the best Pcar technician in his divorce so we bartered on a complete top end rebuild, including a lot of "while you're in there stuff like crank sensors, all oild lines, clutsh, cat gypass, transmission upgrades, AC conversion to R134 etc etc etc). North of $12K if I had paid for everything.

Now it is mechanically perfect but the daily use has taken its toll on the interior, original paint. I'd value it at 12-14 but looking at prices recently. I dunno.

So I'm keeping and plan to retire it from daily us. Since I love drivimg it I'm gonna upgrade the suspension and pit it on a diet rather than do a stock cosmetic restoration.

Good luck on yuour quest

Re: those valve covers. Porsche introduced that particular design in 1980 on the SC. It was a re-enforced version of the original horizontally ribbed version introduced on the Turbo in '75 and all other 911's during mid-year '75. It solved a long running leak issue with the older designs. All 3.2 liter Carreras came with those valve covers.