When America Went Wrong

[tabs]

I have known since 1980 that America was in decline, that deficeit spending without regard for futher consequences was standard operating proceedure. The results of this over the past 30 years or so has been the hollowing out of the American Middle Class, Hugh Federal deficeits with the accompaning Federal Debt, decline of education, decline of infrastructure and, decline in American manufaturing and loss of jobs.

The USA while still leading in Technology within the next 15 years to 20 years is going to be second class if things continue as they are. Also the Medicare and Social Security contracts with the American people are in jeapordy.

Yet our elected officals REFUSE to come to grips with these problems. This borders on Criminal Negligence on their part. Yet this Rot has been going on for so long that the current crop of Legislatures think of it as Standard Operating Proceedure.

So when did this shift from fiscal responsibility take place? The answer was amazingily simple. The moment the Federal Government started to place Social Security Contributions in the General Fund. In other words started to use Americas Savings Account to pay todays bills. This has been a very unique way of hiding Federal Deficeit spending for decades.

So when did this reapplication of funds take place? In the mid 1960s. Lyndon B Johnson to help pay for his SE Asian Wargames in Vietnam decided on and "Guns and Butter" policy known as the Great Society*. That means that Americans got to carry on as if a costly war wasn't taking place, they didn't have to tighten thier belts as they had to do in all previous wars. They weren't expected to sacrafice but carry on their lives as if nothing were happening. This philisophy has carried on until today and shows no sighns of abating. Yet the corners of the rug are starting to show the wear and tear of a half of centurys neglect and deficeit spending.


* Johnsons Great society was envisioned as a means to help end poverty in America. His stance was that America was so wealthy that we could afford both a war in Vietnam and Social Programs to uplift Americans out of poverty at the same time. From that moment on America began to decline, because it ignored fiscal reality.

[legion]

I'd say we went wrong with the New Deal. That is where deficit spending began.

[on-ramp]

tabs, you should have your own show, kinda like Lou Dobbs on CNN, write articles, sell books, talk politics, etc... there's a need for that sort of thing.

[tabs]

The Hoover Admin did nothing to help alleviate the Depression. Things became stagnant, some action was clearly needed to help boost the moral of the American people. There was a moment there that a Communist Revolution was immient if nothing was done to allevaite the Depression. FDRs election and subsequent actions adverted such a revolution.

Under the New Deal Social Security monies were placed in a seperate account to be used to act as a safety net for retirees. LBJ tapped into the Savings Account and started to use those funds as if they were in the General Fund, placing IOUs in the Social Security Account. So that at some later date the American Taxpayer would have to repay the Social Security Fund to help pay the retirees. Get the difference. LBJ was borrowing against futher generations of American workers.

This has been going on for so long that the younger guys don't even know that..they think thats the way its always been.

[tabs]

Thats why you boyz need to know your History so that U know when your being FKed in the a$$

[Clay Perrine]

Here's how to fix it.... in a way that I think would benefit the whole country.

It's my personal idea. Read it, pick it apart, and tell me what you think.

==========================================

The recent election cycle has reinforced my long held opinion that we in the United States have exactly what the founding fathers tried to prevent, a permanent “ruling class”. Politicians groom sons and daughters to take over when they leave office. More time is spent trying to get re-elected than actually performing the business of governing the country. When they actually perform their sworn duties, every vote and every decision is based on what will gain them the most votes to keep them in office, not what is best for their constituency or the country.


The 2 party political system means that we are not given a choice in who will represent us. We are shown 2 people, one of which will definitely be the office holder after the election, and neither of them truly represent the views of the people they supposedly represent. Therefore we get to choose the person we dislike the least, not who we think would represent us the best.

To resolve these issues will take a drastic change in how we elect our leaders. The founding fathers envisioned a citizen who, when called by his fellow citizens, would go to Washington, server in the Senate or House, and after his term expired, return to his personal life. I propose we return to that premise via the method outlined below.

1. All current holders of an elected Federal office are no longer eligible to run for election or re-election to any other Federal office.

2. All political parties are hereby banned.

3. All lobbyists are banned from federal property.

4. All candidates to Federal office will be selected by a random, computer based drawing of names. Each House and Senate seat will be given 6 candidates, Presidential elections will be give 8 candidates (this would include the current Federal office holder who is running for re-election). The candidates will be selected from the ranks of eligible voters in the district where the office will be elected.

Example: House seats will draw the candidates from the congressional district, Senate seats will draw candidates from the whole state, and Presidential elections will draw candidates from the whole United States.

5. Each candidate will be provided a federally funded campaign staff who will work to elect that candidate. The campaign staff will be generated from a random pool of federal campaign workers. All campaigns will receive the exact same amount of finances to use for the election. The winning campaign staff will receive a cash bonus.

6. Election to Federal Office shall be a strict popular vote, where each voter ranks the candidates in order of preference, each candidate getting at least one point from each voter. The candidate with the highest point total is declared the winner.

7. Each Federal office holder elected under these rules is is required to run for re-election one (1) time. After the Federal office holder leaves office, he is forever exempt from being selected as a candidate for any other elected Federal office.

8. The current Federal office holder is prevented from campaigning during his time in office. His campaign staff will use his record of achievement while in office to promote him. Campaign staff who are successful in getting their current Federal office holder re-elected will get a double cash bonus.

9. While in office, the Federal office holder will be paid a salary that matches his current pay, including benefits, and bonuses that he would have earned in his job. His current employer is forbidden by Federal law from terminating the Federal office holder during the time of his Federal service, using the same process that we currently use for military reserve duty.

10. Once in office, the Federal office holder is given a list of qualified and approved Federal employees for each staff position. The office holder may interview them and select the staff that works for him. All employees seeking staff positions must have real world experience in the industry that is overseen by the staff position. Example: The Secretary of Defense must have been, but not currently a serving Line officer in a branch of the US military. The Secretary of the Treasury should be a professional financial or stock trader.

11. All Federal office holders will be provided with housing that is equivalent to the average housing level in their district/state. They will be provided transportation equivalent to the average transportation in their district/state.

12. Congressional committees chair and memberships will be determined by the percentage of popular vote received. Each committee will be assigned a random number, and each committee will be populated in numerical order.

By using this method, we get people who would actually represent their constituency. We also get an election that is more than just choosing from the "lesser of 2 evils". This method will get people who want to do their duty and go home after their service period is up.

=======================================


Opinions about this are welcomed.

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by Clay Perrine
Here's how to fix it.... in a way that I think would benefit the whole country.

It's my personal idea. Read it, pick it apart, and tell me what you think.

==========================================

The recent election cycle has reinforced my long held opinion that we in the United States have exactly what the founding fathers tried to prevent, a permanent “ruling class”. Politicians groom sons and daughters to take over when they leave office. More time is spent trying to get re-elected than actually performing the business of governing the country. When they actually perform their sworn duties, every vote and every decision is based on what will gain them the most votes to keep them in office, not what is best for their constituency or the country.


The 2 party political system means that we are not given a choice in who will represent us. We are shown 2 people, one of which will definitely be the office holder after the election, and neither of them truly represent the views of the people they supposedly represent. Therefore we get to choose the person we dislike the least, not who we think would represent us the best.

To resolve these issues will take a drastic change in how we elect our leaders. The founding fathers envisioned a citizen who, when called by his fellow citizens, would go to Washington, server in the Senate or House, and after his term expired, return to his personal life. I propose we return to that premise via the method outlined below.

1. All current holders of an elected Federal office are no longer eligible to run for election or re-election to any other Federal office.

2. All political parties are hereby banned.

3. All lobbyists are banned from federal property.

4. All candidates to Federal office will be selected by a random, computer based drawing of names. Each House and Senate seat will be given 6 candidates, Presidential elections will be give 8 candidates (this would include the current Federal office holder who is running for re-election). The candidates will be selected from the ranks of eligible voters in the district where the office will be elected.

Example: House seats will draw the candidates from the congressional district, Senate seats will draw candidates from the whole state, and Presidential elections will draw candidates from the whole United States.

5. Each candidate will be provided a federally funded campaign staff who will work to elect that candidate. The campaign staff will be generated from a random pool of federal campaign workers. All campaigns will receive the exact same amount of finances to use for the election. The winning campaign staff will receive a cash bonus.

6. Election to Federal Office shall be a strict popular vote, where each voter ranks the candidates in order of preference, each candidate getting at least one point from each voter. The candidate with the highest point total is declared the winner.

7. Each Federal office holder elected under these rules is is required to run for re-election one (1) time. After the Federal office holder leaves office, he is forever exempt from being selected as a candidate for any other elected Federal office.

8. The current Federal office holder is prevented from campaigning during his time in office. His campaign staff will use his record of achievement while in office to promote him. Campaign staff who are successful in getting their current Federal office holder re-elected will get a double cash bonus.

9. While in office, the Federal office holder will be paid a salary that matches his current pay, including benefits, and bonuses that he would have earned in his job. His current employer is forbidden by Federal law from terminating the Federal office holder during the time of his Federal service, using the same process that we currently use for military reserve duty.

10. Once in office, the Federal office holder is given a list of qualified and approved Federal employees for each staff position. The office holder may interview them and select the staff that works for him. All employees seeking staff positions must have real world experience in the industry that is overseen by the staff position. Example: The Secretary of Defense must have been, but not currently a serving Line officer in a branch of the US military. The Secretary of the Treasury should be a professional financial or stock trader.

11. All Federal office holders will be provided with housing that is equivalent to the average housing level in their district/state. They will be provided transportation equivalent to the average transportation in their district/state.

12. Congressional committees chair and memberships will be determined by the percentage of popular vote received. Each committee will be assigned a random number, and each committee will be populated in numerical order.

By using this method, we get people who would actually represent their constituency. We also get an election that is more than just choosing from the "lesser of 2 evils". This method will get people who want to do their duty and go home after their service period is up.

=======================================


Opinions about this are welcomed.

Good start...Courts are next.

[id10t]

Whoever wants to be in office probably shouldn't be allowed to be in office.... I like your plan.

[nineoneone]

It's even easier than that


My plan
2 only 2 term limits
put all the politicians on Social Security and they will fix it!!!


the end.

[tabs]

The problem is that there is TOO MUCH MONEY involved. Corporations donate money to BOTH political canidates running for office, so they wind up with access no matter who wins.

No Politician wants to tell the American people that they can't have their cake and eat it to. Americans have gotten used to having it all, whenever they want it. Wihout regard for their futher, thus a negative savings rate.

Having too many Political Parties creats instabilty in the government. Who is going to organize 100 divergent Senators so that legislation gets passed if there are no Political Parties.

Take the money outa Politics...limit campaign spending, give free media access to the top 4 canidates or so...The Airwaves belong to the people and the networks have to provide so many hours of public service to use those airwaves. Limit the length of Political Campaigns

[azasadny]

My mother's theory is that "America went to hell" when Elvis came onboard and became a "star"...Downhill from that point on... I can't argue with her.

[Rikao4]

when illigal = undocumented,
when murder became = they had it rough growing up
when common sense = lets not upset anyone
when the ACLU defends child predators
English becomes the second language
Christmas trees are forbidden
illegals should qualify for legal documents
terrorist are really freedom fighters
Kennedy just keep getting re-elected
Paris Hilton is not a slut
ebonics is considered english by your parents
little over 40% of current high school students in SA will graduate
size 16 is 'normal'
Rika

[fastpat]

Originally posted by legion
I'd say we went wrong with the New Deal. That is where deficit spending began.

See my post on the Progressives.

[widebody911]

I say it started with Buckley v. Valeo

[fastpat]

Originally posted by tabs
Johnsons Great society was envisioned as a means to help end poverty in America. His stance was that America was so wealthy that we could afford both a war in Vietnam and Social Programs to uplift Americans out of poverty at the same time. From that moment on America began to decline, because it ignored fiscal reality.

It's my opinion that the Great Society was Johnson's attempt to be revered historically at the same level as Roosevelt is, fortunately not only did that not happen, Roosevelt's real politics and catastrophic policies are becoming better known.

[Purrybonker]

As a Canadian, I’ll lever some research work of a Brit (Richard Dawkins dug up these quotes in pursuit of a different subject matter) and I will say that America "went wrong" a long time after these two statements:

“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

Under signature of John Adams in the US Treaty with Tripoli drafted under George Washington, circa 1796.

and, much more importantly….

“Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.”

Thomas Jefferson in a letter to his nephew, Peter Carr circa 1787.

And America went wrong in a very near time to this statement:

“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.”

President George Bush (sr.) quoted from Robert Sherman in Free Inquiry, 1988

The huge gap between the concepts of freedom being understood to include the intellectual and cultural freedom that can only arise in a secular society to the shackles of fear imposed by the literal and metaphoric application of the rules of religion which only can teach the necessity of making destinctions between good vs. evil, black vs.white, liberal vs. conservative, hetero vs. homo, and so on and so on and so on.

America has stopped being what it once was – the bastion of true physical and intellectual freedom. In consequence it has become less truly free than almost any other nation on the planet. America now spends it's time trying to prove Orwell and Huxley (and almost certainly, Darwin) right. But I find it particularly instructive that George Bush would seemingly opt to exclude Thomas Jefferson from citizenship by virtue of his atheicism. Tail; meet dog. What does that in itself say about the evolution of the singular concept that epitomizes America? Oh, right... freedom.

edit: added Darwin; how could I have missed the most obvious one?

[Lothar]

It's all been downhill since 1913.

[tabs]

GO TO MY NEW THREAD: "I WANT EVERYONE TO READ THIS"

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by tabs
Under the New Deal Social Security monies were placed in a seperate account to be used to act as a safety net for retirees. LBJ tapped into the Savings Account and started to use those funds as if they were in the General Fund, placing IOUs in the Social Security Account. So that at some later date the American Taxpayer would have to repay the Social Security Fund to help pay the retirees. Get the difference. LBJ was borrowing against futher generations of American workers.

This has been going on for so long that the younger guys don't even know that..they think thats the way its always been.

Two things really piss me off. 1, the above regarding the Johnson admin stealing our retirement savings to fund the Viet Nam war, and 2, its clearly stated in the Social Security Admin that your SSN is NOT to be used as an identification number.

Clearly we know now that what President Johnson did is going to bankrupt America and using any number, especially the SSN as an id number is just one of many steps along the way to "Big Brother" here in the country.

[gatotom]

so far everything I have read is good.....we must remember that this process of getting sold down the river has been a work in progress for along time.

We can go back to the Wilson admin. when the federal reserve bank was created in 1913...here is a good article be martin
http://www.worldnewsstand.net/today/articles/fedprivatelyowned.htm
That was the first selloff of america.
The next one that stands out in my eyes is when tricky dicky got rid of the gold standard thus allowing the fed reserve bank( which is privately owned) to set interest and valuation, I believe in 1974.

We be slaves now.

Lothar is right...its been downhill since 1913.