That sucks for Martin at Daytona

Zeke · 02-18-2007, 03:30 PM

If I heard the announcers correctly, they said that the caution light was held up until the 2 lead cars came across the line. Then the light. The rules state that the field is frozen at the time of the light. So, with carnage all over the track behind Martin and Harvick, the finishing order was not the same order as how they (3rd thru last placer) crossed the line under that rule. This may or may not have changed the finishing order. Some of the cars towards the back probably advanced in the field as others spun and wrecked. Only they will know unless Fox releases films (which they won't without NASCAR's permission).

My point? Well if part of the field's finishing position is determined under one rule and the winner another, I protest. They delayed the light.

Mark Martin won the race, AFAIC, and that's it for me. I only watch one stock car race a year anyway.

lendaddy · 02-18-2007, 03:36 PM

Looked to me that at the time of the wreck Harvick was ahead, a second or two later Martin retook the lead....then Harvick got it back at the line. So the only way Martin would have won was if they delayed the light a couple seconds from the wreck (which they may do, I don't normally watch Nascar).

pwd72s · 03:41 PM

Me too...I was rooting for ol' Mark though, so just perhaps I'm a bit prejudiced? (edit) Hell of a race, though...lots of excitement!
Hey, maybe I shouldn't admit it here, but I like Nascar... And if there is a dirt track near anybody here, maybe you should visit it when the outlaws are there....I don't think many F-1 boys would last long in that bull ring!

URY914 · 02-18-2007, 03:44 PM

http://www.fansagainstracingtoyotas.com/

lonewolf · lonewolf's Garage

i agree was wondering the same thing .
the caution that happened just before that one they didn't wait for the lead cars to cross the start finish line before the caution was thrown, it came out right away like all the other times as soon as the wrecks happened.
Martin was classy not to complain but he did say himself that as soon as he saw the wrecks behind and he was leading at that time he figured he had one. he might have even lifted slightly for a second because if you noticed harvick gained on him fast and even went by him a touch but then martin came back and was leading again he was even slightly ahead untill the last second .200th of a secondwin by harvick.

TerryH · TerryH's Garage

Yeah, our house was pulling for the miracle which would have put Mark in victory lane. It's a tough call to say exactly who would have had the lead if the yellow flew because thowing the yellow flag isn't an exact science. Is it a sideways car or contact or smoke or what?

The very second that Kyle Busch's car caught the apron and started to spin, Harvick was ahead. As cars started colliding, Martin was ahead, then Harvick regained the lead as the carnage continued.

Thanks to Tivo, we watched the replay a least a dozen times and it all comes down to when should a yellow fly under normal circumstances. The answer is it's at Nascar's descretion.

One thing I'm sure of is we haven't heard the end of it. There will be discussion and Nascar's explanation.

Definitely an exciting finish with one of my fantasy drivers sliding across the s/f line on his roof and on fire.

JCF · 02-18-2007, 03:49 PM

That was a race ?

It is starting to get to be like basketball - the closer it gets to the end the longer it takes to end - you can just turn it on for the last 20 minutes and you really haven't missed anything.
The only real RACING occured at the very end .
Maybe they should make it the Daytona 100 - what a waste of time.

IMWO

Rearden · 03:56 PM

I don't think the rules are set in stone for the overtime finishes. DW said it was up to the discretion of the officials to let them race to the finish or throw the yellow.

I know it's not impossible for NASCAR to use its discretion to make a better show -- but if that were the case, they would have had Martin win.

Zeke · 02-18-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
Looked to me that at the time of the wreck Harvick was ahead, a second or two later Martin retook the lead....then Harvick got it back at the line. So the only way Martin would have won was if they delayed the light a couple seconds from the wreck (which they may do, I don't normally watch Nascar).

Normally, they hit the button at first sign of trouble. The reason for a caution light is primarily to warn drivers of any situation. There are lots of lights all around the track. Waiting for any period is not correct. It may be that Harvick was ahead of Martin at the exact moment that, under any other circumstance (say the middle of the race), the wreck began.

However, this isn't completely about Martin. Sure, it took Earnhardt Sr. 20 years to win his first; this was Martin's 20th 500 start and I, too, was sympathetic for a win.

But, what about the rest? One rule should cover the field at any given period of time or lap. Not two. As I said, I may be wrong on how they end up scoring this. I just listen to what I'm being told by Mike Joy, Larry Mac and DW.

I'm not gonna stress over this.

VaSteve · 02-18-2007, 03:57 PM

That was exciting. Bummer for Martin, bummer for Stewart. I don't get to watch TV in 3 hour blocks because I have a 22 month old that won't let me. Glad I got to see the whole thing.

I was waiting for that fake yellow people here have been talking about but I guess they didn't need such a device this time.

JCF · 02-18-2007, 03:58 PM

There was no reason to end it , there was no one in front of the lead cars and it would have been less fair to not let the first car over the line take the win.
Unless Martin lifted because he thought the rule would take effect - but he didn't and it did look like Harvick was ahead when the fun began.

The two fastest cars went out before the racing began.

dd74 · 02-18-2007, 04:10 PM

I think because the wreck happened behind the lead cars - plus because no one wants to see a yellow flag finish - is why this won't be contested with NASCAR. It was a great finish. I like Martin too, but Harvick is a great driver. The strong push is what won this race.

lonewolf · lonewolf's Garage

they just showed the overhead on speed and martin is clearly ahead when the wrecks begine

VaSteve · 02-18-2007, 04:18 PM

Someone in another thread said the usually throw out a "fake yellow" to bunch up the cars at the end of a dull race. That's what I was referring to.

syncroid · 02-18-2007, 04:24 PM

Being a long time Mark Martin fan, I was a little dissappointed but I have to agree with the call the officials made. "The wreck was behind them and not in front of them." I'll take a second over a DNF any time.

Zeke · 02-18-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JCF
There was no reason to end it , there was no one in front of the lead cars and it would have been less fair to not let the first car over the line take the win.
Unless Martin lifted because he thought the rule would take effect - but he didn't and it did look like Harvick was ahead when the fun began.

The two fastest cars went out before the racing began.

You see, that's where objectivity ends and subjectivity begins. I just watched another replay and Martin was ahead MOST of the time the cars were spinning. Rules are rules until it comes to NASCAR.

Now, listen to this: I have a relative that handled the phone lines and equipment at Talladega for 20 years (now retired). They had a 20 x 20 equipment room which was a small switching terminal by any standards. The requirements were enormous just before the cell phone links to credit card machines as every souvenir booth had to have a line.

Guess what? My relative told me there was a direct, secure line from Bill France Jr.'s seat in the tower to the starter stand on the front straight. Why a phone line? Well, you can't monitor that with a scanner. No telling what they talked about during a race.

Anyone who thinks NASCAR isn't fixed is missing some facts, such as the one I just told you. I still watch Daytona. I lived in Talladega, but haven't seen that race for 5 years. I worked Talladega in a wrecker (tow truck to us West Coasters

) several times. In fact, I picked up Martin's car on the back stretch in '93 after a 17 car pile up. He'll be the first to tell you plate racing sucks.

I'll wager he skips Talladega.

JCF · 02-18-2007, 04:41 PM

I haven't seen the replays - I wasted enough time on that "race" already (and yet here I am ...) . You could very well be right Milt, that Martin was ahead when the cars started to wreck. Too bad he wasn't ahead when they crossed the line - I would also have liked to see him win it.
I usually disagree with all the decisions NASCAR makes but that was the fair way for it to end - Hell it was the only real racing I saw for 3 hours.

VaSteve · 02-18-2007, 04:58 PM

Why did they keep talking about "friends" on the track....what did the drivers behind the lead contribute? I don't quite "get" the teamsmanship and "friendships" out there. Can someone explain it to me?

DUK · 02-18-2007, 05:08 PM

I agree with Milt 100%. Did I mention I work for Ginn Racing.

Zeke · 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JCF
I haven't seen the replays - I wasted enough time on that "race" already (and yet here I am ...) . You could very well be right Milt, that Martin was ahead when the cars started to wreck. Too bad he wasn't ahead when they crossed the line - I would also have liked to see him win it.
I usually disagree with all the decisions NASCAR makes but that was the fair way for it to end - Hell it was the only real racing I saw for 3 hours.

From the other thread:

Quote:

Originally posted by JCF
I think the shark just jumped NASCAR - It is a sad day for auto racing when a golf match on a nearby channel is as exciting as cars going a buck 80.

What the heck was that ? ! ? The Daytona 500 or a demolition derby.
Once the two fastest cars went out the rest was anticlimax.

Impressive cars - truly talented drivers all - but PLEASE Mr. France, bring racing back to Nascar.

John

That's funny. You don't seem to admire the race that much. I thought there were several interesting skirmishes during the race. Like TS trying to get around Busch, who is a total jerk on and off the track. Not that Stewart isn't.

But, I thought the fireworks were about to start then. As it was, these two clowns take each other out, again. And with all the counseling need by these two for their various transgressions, it was all, "Oh, I'm so sorry, man."

I mean, this stuff is all at once hilarious and ridiculous. How can you not love it?

Oh, BTW, I went Las Vegas and drove what is actually a Busch car for 6 laps. I turned 140 behind the rabbit car with qualifying at the time (lower banking then) at a tick under 170. I have no idea how these guys drive these things like they do. You can't see **** sitting in the seat. Just straight ahead and nothing beyond the dash. No nose, no fenders, nothing. You can't even see the ground for about 100 feet.

It may be and is stupid racing, but those guys ARE good. I can enjoy that.

Quote:

Originally posted by JCF
Yup, sit through a parade for 2 hrs and 59 minutes and a "race" breaks out - go figure.

: )